SISIP LTD and ELB

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SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 18:24

I have been receiving ELB since Nov 2012 and now I've just been re-instated SISIP LTD. I don't expect that I can collect both but can't find where it states this. Since my SISIP LTD is retroactive, will VAC want me to give back all ELB received since Nov 2012?

Any input would be appreciated.

TTT

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 20:00

well it does state 75% for elb so if you get sisip at 75% the math says you cant be on both.as for some second hand info my CM told me sisip is the first payer.ill ad this as it may be relevant to you its from the NVC.

41. The Governor in Council may make regulations

(a) providing for the notification of the Minister, by persons who are in receipt of an earnings loss benefit or a Canadian Forces income support benefit, of any changes in income or benefits, or in an amount payable for a month from a prescribed source for the purposes of subsection 19(1) or 23(3), requiring the provision of statements of estimated income, benefits or amounts payable and providing for the effect of those changes on the calculation of the amount of the compensation payable;

as for paying anything back I would assume as much but that is just an assumption thus you have a very good and interesting question.not sure if I can find anything but ill take a look.

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 20:36

TTT

ok so much for assumptions here it goes.


21. (1) The monthly military salary referred to in sections 18 to 20 shall be adjusted annually on January 1 in accordance with the percentage increase to the Consumer Price Index, rounded to the next 1/4%, for the year ending on September 30 of the previous year to a maximum of 2% per year.


(2) The Consumer Price Index is the annual average all-items Consumer Price Index for Canada (not seasonally adjusted) published by Statistics Canada.


22. The following sources are prescribed for the purpose of the amount of variable B in subsection 19(1) of the Act:

(a) [Repealed, SOR/2012-195, s. 1]


(b) benefits payable under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act, the Public Service Superannuation Act or the Employment Insurance Act;


(c) benefits payable, other than amounts payable for a dependent child, under the Canada Pension Plan or the Quebec Pension Plan;


(d) benefits payable under any employer-sponsored long-term disability insurance plan;


(e) benefits payable in respect of economic loss under the Government Employees Compensation Act or any provincial workers’ compensation legislation;


(f) amounts payable in respect of economic loss arising from legal liability to pay damages;


(g) amounts payable under an employer pension plan;


(h) employment earnings payable while the veteran is not participating in a rehabilitation plan or vocational assistance plan developed by the Minister or where the veteran is participating in such a plan and the sum of the earnings loss payable for a month plus the employment earnings for the month exceeds the veteran’s imputed income; and


(i) 50% of employment earnings payable while the veteran is participating in a rehabilitation plan or vocational assistance plan developed by the Minister so long as the sum of the earnings loss payable for a month plus the employment earnings for the month does not exceed the veteran’s imputed income.


SOR/2012-195, s. 1.

Previous Version

23. The following sources are prescribed for the purpose of subsection 23(3) of the Act:

(a) [Repealed, SOR/2012-195, s. 2]


(b) benefits payable under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act or the Public Service Superannuation Act other than amounts payable for a dependent child;


(c) benefits payable under the Canada Pension Plan or the Quebec Pension Plan other than amounts payable for a dependent child;


(d) benefits payable under any employer-sponsored long-term disability insurance plan other than amounts payable for a dependent child;


(e) benefits payable in respect of economic loss under the Government Employees Compensation Act or any provincial workers’ compensation legislation other than amounts payable for a dependent child;


(f) amounts payable in respect of economic loss arising from legal liability to pay damages; and


(g) amounts payable under an employer pension plan other than amounts payable for a dependent child.


SOR/2012-195, s. 2.

I learned something new here as I didn't think ELB had a cap on the CPI but I guess its the same as sisip.

and now for the big one.


24. If any amount referred to in section 22 or 23 is paid as a lump sum, it shall be converted into a monthly payment in accordance with generally accepted actuarial principles.

now what do you think this says ????

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 20:56

ok buds just blew threw all of the relevant charter and its regulations stuff and this is all I can find.i was able to find nothing on repayment of ELB as it refers to your situation. 24. does deal with lump sums but since they mention actuarial principles im think they are referring to post (buyout type) lump sum not retroactive lump sum. however I would defiantly look into this further as im no lawyer and have trouble making this crap out from time to time.

thank you for such an interesting question.

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 21:08

LOL, OMG propat, thanks for your input however I clearly smoke too much to be able to absorb whatever the **** that is. What a Face 
Joking aside, Now that I recall, when VAC said I qualified for ELB back in Nov 2012, I received a worksheet and a check for ELB going back to 2006 (I was in the Rehab program before I fell off their radar) Were talking to the tune of thousands here. And they gave me that money AFTER the settlement in may 2012!!??? I'm assuming that because of the settlement, my VAC benefits could no longer be used to determine eligibility for ELB, and they topped me up. VAC must be aware that I will receive retro from SISIP, so why give me the money if they are just going to claw it back? It's not making sense to me. All I know is, if they are thinking of taking all ELB I received off my settlement check, it will be from my cold dead hands.

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 21:22

And just to add, I'm quite positive that I'm not the only vet receiving ELB while I wait for my refund from Manual Life. In accordance with the rules of ELB, I'm supposed to inform them of any additional income, which I will, soon, maybe. I'm just afraid too. Last time I "did the right thing", I got a letter from VAC telling me that I received an over payment of benefits going back to 2001. IT WAS $ 74,000.00!! After fighting with them for month's insisting it was an error on the part of an employee at VAC, they finally remitted the over-payment and gave me back my benefits, however the stress took 10 years off my life. Farging bastages!!

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 21:24

lol don't blame ya buds now under one section of the diarrhea I went through it sayed that the minister could do this that and the other thing this included stopping ELB and so forth. this is where I expected to see a the minister can request repayment of statement but none could be found. you can take this for what its worth witch is not much but from everything ive read I really don't think you have to pay it back contrary to what I would have expected.

either way I hope you make out the best buds take the money and run lol.

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 21:30

are you currently getting monthly payments from sisip?

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 21:51

Thank you very much for taking all that time to research my question propat, I really appreciate it. For now, no news is good news...I guess.


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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 21:52

yes, just got my letter of re-instatement and a check to cover benefits from 01 OCT to present.

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 21:54

If VAC(ELB is going to be looking for money, I'll know soon enough.

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Sun 07 Jul 2013, 21:58

great news TTT yes you will know soon enough buds.hope you make out great.

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by bigrex on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 00:51

OK, let's clear the air here. One, if you are reinstated on SISIP, VAC likely already knows and will be sending a letter stating that your ELB has ceased, and it will resume if any time you come off SISIP. Other members here have experienced this. As for your retro, since ELB is consider income replacement, all the gross amounts earned from ELB shall be deducted from your retro. And because of the information sharing that has taken place, be assured that SISIP knows exactly how much you've been paid under the ELB program.
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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 08:51

great stuff big rex  and yes as ive alluded to in my first post 75% is 75%. im sure even though sisip sent him his reinstatement retro many months after he was on elb they would deduct it from his full retro yet to come. however the question was would VAC want him to  pay back the retro. now I would naturally assume that to mean if sisip doesn't catch it since if they did they would be no need to repay anyone.

will VAC want me to give back all ELB received since Nov 2012?

I cant find any legislation ore regulation for repayment of ELB.

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by bigrex on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 15:23

Actually, I'm not sure what will happen if you have been getting SISIP and ELB since Nov. Your ELB should have ceased as soon as your SISIP was reinstated. So as long as you haven't been doubling up programs, nobody should have to pay money back. Propat, if you have been getting both, I would call VAC right away and get this settled sooner, rather then wait for them to figure it out, because then they may play hardball with you, IE: withhold any taxable benefits until the balance is paid off.
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