SISIP LTD and ELB

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 15:37

bigrex its TTT in this position so he asked the question. being paranoid as I can get I immediately thought of him and other vets getting into a spot of getting sisip retro and having to pay legal fees on that and then having to return the FULL amount to DVA. so I double checked the sisip policy under relevant sources of income and as I thought ELB was not amongst them. then I checked the ELB legislation AND regs for fund recovery and found nothing so I posted the relevant info that might help.

again a very interesting question.

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by bloggins on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 16:47

Hi,

I was approved for ELB, but including my CF, CPP(D), and VAC PA amounts all as taxable income, I received zero ELB from my application in 2008.

I was previously approved for SISIP LTD, but because of the same amounts being thought of wholly as taxable income, I was declared a zero-sum recipient of LTD from the start of my release and beyond the 24 months..

Being reinstated on the monthly payment of SISIP LTD as of last October, and awaiting my retro payment.

I have yet to receive anything from VAC reference to being reinstated on ELB, and would have been due to the same reasons that my LTD was reinstated if this was a matter of neither affecting the other.

It would be my guess that the file sharing that was allowed last fall, has informed VAC that I am on SISIP, not confirmed, but my guess..

Is the purpose of ELB only to bring you up to a minimum threshold of taxable income, not based on our former salaries as SISIP LTD is?

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 17:02

bloggins ELB is also based on your former salary like sisip but with a minimum threshold.

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Wed 10 Jul 2013, 14:36

Hey propat, (and any other vets to whom this may apply to) CM says that if you are re-instated and receiving retro, then any ELB payments made to a member since 01 Oct 2012 will have to be paid back. He is unsure about ELB payments received prior to 01 Oct 2012, since the settlement wasn't official yet.

This link is to a VAC policy document covering Earnings Loss Benefit-Overpayment; Recovery, Write Off and Remission. I direct you to Para 25abcd. I will be sending a letter to the Minister asking for a Remittance, leaning heavily on sub para c.

 25  c.  the repayment of an over payment would cause undue hardship to a member or a beneficiary- applicable in those situations  where the member is in receipt of income tested benefits(ie. Guaranteed Income Supplement, CFIS benefit, etc) and/or if emotional distress caused by the overpayment appears to pose a threat to the members state of health.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/department/policy/document/1212#anchor26963

TTT

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Wed 10 Jul 2013, 15:01

Bigrex    I am in this situation because I am/was receiving ELB right up until end June. My file was in adjudication so I didn't get re-instated until a week ago. I didn't stop ELB until I knew that I would receive benefits going forward, hence SISIP retro going back to 01 Oct 2012. So now I have to pay back the ELB benefits I received from that date. At least thats what my CM says. I will wait for the letter from VAC telling me "ELB has been terminated and you owe us...."

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Wed 10 Jul 2013, 16:17

GREAT REASERCH TTT i looked everywhere and couldn't find this.this link is i great read and i recommend it highly for anyone else in your situation ore similar as it could save you a lot.

TTT your course of action chosen seems to me to be the best choice as far as im concerned. as far as anything payed prior to oct 1 2012 you were payed that legally and should not have to be payed back nor do i believe sisip can deduct it in their retro calculations as it is not in their policy under relevant sources of income like the DVA pension use to be.

once again great research.

propat


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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by bloggins on Wed 10 Jul 2013, 19:53

For repayment back to VAC,

they usually, from my previous experience go with 10% of whatever amount you are still receiving from them on a monthly basis,

For example you are receiving $10 from them on a ongoing monthly basis, the repayment would be $1 per month until it is repaid..

Same goes for repayment to the CF Superannuation act in regard to over payments, they go on 10% of monthly pension amount until paid off,

unless you figure you can repay more in either case, or they inadvertently without your input or response from notice of overpayment calculate for more,

If you are NVC I am unsure on any re payment of funds such as ELB..

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by PipperNavy on Wed 10 Jul 2013, 23:17

I just called VAC last week and ceased my ELB as soon as Sisip told me I would be getting LTD till age 65 .. I will wait for the letter from VAC telling me * you owe us*.. My CM is retarded I swear .. she once broke down and cried on the phone talking to me ...
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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by bigrex on Thu 11 Jul 2013, 00:23

TTT, it should be simple. SISIP will have to know the amounts you received from ELB when they complete your file, so they should simply tell you that because you were already in receipt of full ELB benefits, then there is no SISIP funds required for those months. If VAC insists on you paying that money back, even if it was already deducted from your SISIP benefit, then you should contact SISIP, as they will owe you for those months as well. Basically, you are entitled to get 75% of your military pay every month, so if SISIP doesn't pay it, VAC should, and vice versa. So in the end, you are no worse, or better off, than you are entitled.
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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by caperlord on Mon 15 Jul 2013, 21:18

I have a question and hoping someone can help me out or turn me in the right direction I have been on sisip for 13 yrs but with the money they have been taking I had to get work as it has been off and on as I could not keep it up my body is just not strong enough they said I had past the 3 yr term in order to get reinstated my question is I had worked went on ei and then worked and so on now im officially done as I have to do severe treatments to get semi ok is there anybody that can help me out to see if I do qualify again thanks so much for any info.

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by bigrex on Mon 15 Jul 2013, 21:59

Apparently having worked on and off isn't a barrier to being reinstated, if I fully understand what others have written about their own situations before getting reinstated. The only thing, I'm not clear about is this 3 year time limit you are talking about. There is no time limit for getting reinstated, as some guys had their files closed well over a decade and were reinstated.
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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Mon 22 Jul 2013, 07:29

Well it's official. I received a letter from Head Office Charlottetown:

Dear Triple T

We have recently been advised that you are receiving SISIP LTD benefits. As SISIP benefits must be considered as a deduction in calculating your Earnings Loss Benefit*, no Earnings Loss Benefit is payable at this time.

We have re-calculated your Earnings Loss Benefit amounts for the period 31 May 2006 to 31 July 2013, to account for the SISIP benefit amounts you received during that period. We have calculated a total overpayment of $xxxxx.xx.

You will be contacted by our Overpayment Unit in the near future regarding your re-payment.

* According to Section 22 of the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Regulations.

I am feeling some mixed reaction. Although it was great news to hear that my file has been through adjudication, and I have been re-instated, I can't help but wonder what kind of "cluster f**k" I can look forward to now that VAC has stuck their nose into it. If there is a member out there who has already been through this ssituation, I am curious if they will recover 100% of ELB overpayment from my SISIP retro, or will they let me pay it back in installments, or maybe there is some other course of action they will follow. Any input would be appreciated.

TTT

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by bigrex on Mon 22 Jul 2013, 10:03

TTT, on your worksheet, did it break down how much you received each year, and or other deductions? Because if SISIP already deducted the amounts given to you for ELB from your retro, then there is no overpayment. If I knew I was reinstated, but hadn't been paid yet, I would call Peter and have him ensure that in the future, all ELB payment are being deducted at source, just to avoid any headaches.
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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by TripleT on Mon 22 Jul 2013, 11:31

bigrex

I did receive a worksheet with my ELB. It does show all payments I received back to May 2006. The check I received from Manual Life with my letter of re-instatement  was for "full" benefits minus tax, from 01 Oct 2012 until 30 June 2013. No ELB benefits were deducted. So that means that VAC was not aware that I was a class member? Doesn't appear to have been much information sharing when it comes to my particular situation.

You suggested I inform Peter to have all ELB overpayment amounts deducted at source. What if I don't have to pay back monies received prior to Oct 2012? Propat mentioned that he checked on SISIP's policy of relevant sources of income, and ELB was not among them. Do you think that SISIP would deduct an ELB overpayment from my retro just because VAC wants them to? What if there is an error in VAC's calculations? Trying to straighten that out will be a nightmare. Do you know of any members whom that has happened to, where VAC has directed Manual Life to deduct an overpayment?

TTT

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Re: SISIP LTD and ELB

Post by Guest on Mon 22 Jul 2013, 11:44

As soon as The clawback ceased , Vac booted me off EELB, I wasn't getting anything anyway but Vac said I am Sisip now!

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