THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

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THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Jeffery M on Wed 24 Jul 2013, 16:00

Veterans suing government over disability pensions
Chris Lane, CTV British Columbia
Published Monday, July 22, 2013 6:06PM PDT
Last Updated Monday, July 22, 2013 6:11PM PDT
The federal government is asking a BC Supreme Court judge to strike down a class-action lawsuit filed by six war veterans over disability compensation.

The disabled veterans are challenging a pension program introduced in 2006, which the soldiers say violates their human rights with insufficient and arbitrary disability payments.

Veteran pensions previously fell under the Pension Act, before the New Veterans Charter was signed off seven years ago to establish more veteran-specific regulations.

Kevin Berry, one of the plaintiffs named in the lawsuit, contends that the benefits are 40 to 90 per cent worse under the new rules, and are weaker than provincial compensation plans.

The federal government argues the soldiers' concerns should not be dealt with by the courts. They say the veterans should lobby MPs instead to change the legislation.

"They're telling us that you can't sue us because you're veterans, you're not entitled to equal compensation because you're veterans," said Berry.

"We're not going to stand for that."

Jim Scott, whose son Daniel is another one of the six disabled soldiers in the class-action suit, said the court case will determine what power soldiers have to negotiate their pensions.

"What we're here to do today is to establish whether soldiers have fundamental rights under the Charter … and whether the government owes them a duty of care," said Scott.

The court hearing will continue Tuesday and Wednesday.

Read more: http://bc.ctvnews.ca/veterans-suing-government-over-disability-pensions-1.1378991#ixzz2ZsAIgAly

------------

July 22, 2013 first day in Court.

Only the Governments lawyers talked today. I will summarise some of the points which they made.

(1)Fiduciary Duty to Veterans is being denied by the Government (Crown)
Basically this means that Ottawa or the Crown arguing for Ottawa does not believe that they have any sacred duty to care for Veterans.

(2)The crown also argued that Canada has no obligations to provide any benefits to Veterans.

(3) They also contend that there is no obligation under legislative authority to provide the military with equal benefits.

(4) That the changes made to the act are not a matter for the court. The lawyer went on to say that there were more prudent ways to deal with this matter and when the Judge as him to name one , he suggested contacting our MP's, only later to state that government only worked incrementally not monumentally. To me at least one sort of ruled out the other, because he was saying a better way was to contact your MP for help and then said but it will take forever if at all.

I am not sure about the numbers of Veterans who showed up but it wasn't as many as I would have expected because of the seriousness of that the decision on this question might (Might) have on the future of all Veterans and RCMP disability programs.

I honestly believe if the Crown (Government) gets a ruling in their favour there will be a legal president and ruling that Ottawa has no obligation to provide any services to Veterans and furthermore have no obligation to give equal benefits, not even for equal injury.
Now granted I would not expect or at least hope for them not to cancel what is already out there but I doubt that there will be any further recipients of many of the Veterans programs already out there, including but not limited to, VIP, Education, 75% of pay for 2 years, even medical care and who will provide it comes into question.

I had to leave early due to parking issues.
End of Day one.

PS: It is now a matter of Public Record that Ottawa (Our present Government) do not believe that they owe Veterans including the injured one, ANYTHING.

Regards,
The Canadian Veterans Advocacy Team.

http://canadianveteransadvocacy.com/Board2/index.php

Canadian Veterans Advocacy at 8:58 AM
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Jeffery M
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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Guest on Wed 24 Jul 2013, 17:45

WOW

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Rifleman on Wed 24 Jul 2013, 18:53

I agree wow!!!

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Jeffery M on Wed 24 Jul 2013, 19:31

That's right ladies and gents!
No obligation!!

Pension Act recipients should thank the government for taking as good of care as they have....
NVC recipients should thank the government for even recognizing them...

No obligation!!

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Guest on Wed 24 Jul 2013, 19:43

It's going to be a fight for sure but your fight is the right and honourable fight. I wish Harper would read CSAT for a week or two maybe he would see that honour and do the right thing!

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Jeffery M on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 20:19

Equitas Society
Well After 3 days in court observing the federal governments lawyers move to strike down our case, we plaintiffs who were able to attend are quite burnt out. I compared trying to follow some of the lawyers statements was like interpreting a foreign film without subtitles. The proceedings ended yesterday July 24th and we await the judges ruling. Days or weeks we will wait now. Thank god we had someone among us who could take notes and understand and simplify what we heard. Ladies and gentlemen Harold Leduc.



"I've listened to the arguments presented by both sides in the current Court proceedings to determine if the Miller Thompson/ Equitas law suit can proceed.

Regardless of the outcome, Government lawyers taught us a very important lesson this week about how the Government views Veterans. They based their argument and it's now a matter of public record in a court of law that the Government feels:
1. veterans are essentially no different than any other citizen collecting other social benefits (welfare, unemployment, etc) and we are owed nothing more.
2. there is no 'Social Contract' between veterans, the Government and the People of Canada despite it being written through out legislation and in CF publications.
3. that if citizens (Veterans in the case of the NVC) don't like the Government's laws, we are free to replace the Government through an election.

Shocking statements showing Government's arrogant, disrespectful and aggressive adversarial position against us. You may recall that as an election promise, the Conservative party committed to improving veterans benefits. Instead of changing the offending parts of the NVC that they opposed in opposition, they adopted the Liberal Government's NVC as if was their own. Now they are wasting what can amount to millions of taxpayers dollars to defend it in the courts, in a breach of our 'Social Contract' and potential breach of Constitutional law, just like they did in their losing battle against Dennis Manuge in the SISIP court case.

When the Liberal Government was rushing the NVC though Parliament before they were defeated in 2006, Minster of Veterans Affairs Albina Gueriani, with the heads of Veterans organizations present, told Members of Parliament, with the heads of Veterans organizations present, that if MP's voted against the NVC, they were voting against Veterans.

Could the same be said about Veterans organizations and individuals who continue to work 'with' the Government, including the Ombudsman, under the current circumstances of a Government who's hidden agenda treats us like a burden on society disrespecting a long established 'social contract' that once was the envy of the Allied world?

What should we make of the organizations who appear to be ignoring supported allegations and calls for explanations of how their policies and actions play a significant role in denying Veterans and their families essential benefits disrespecting the established concept of 'One Veteran'? Aren't they part of our community? Don't they owe us an explanation when asked? Is there anything we can do as a community to address this behaviour? Is the behaviour important enough to address?

On our behalf, Miller Thompson / Equitas argued to the Court that the 'Social Contract' between veterans, the Government and the people of Canada is historically owned by the people of Canada and it's not open for any governing party to manipulate it as if it were their own policy as is the current case. Should we adopt the same position? What can we do about the Government's behaviour?

In summary, the lawyers, on behalf of the Government told us that there is no 'Social Contract', we are no better than welfare recipients and we should vote the current Party out of office. In addition, the Veterans organizations seem to be working 'with' the Government and not with our community.

We know where we stand, what are we prepared to do about it as a community?

All comments including those of the organizations are encouraged to provide a balanced point of view to help us work together to find a way to move beyond the current discourse.

Sincerely

Harold"
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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Guest on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 22:20

thank you for that Jeffery keep us informed as best you can buds.

propat

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Rifleman on Sat 27 Jul 2013, 15:47

Thanks for all the info Jeffery

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Jeffery M on Sun 28 Jul 2013, 00:25


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Sit Rep Press Conference 0930, July 30th Parliament Hill - Equitas
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2013, 07:47:19 PM »
Sit Rep Press Conference 0930, Parliament Hill - Equitas

Be advised that Peter Stoffer, NDP Veterans Affairs critic, will be holding a press conference on Parliament Hill, Tuesday, July 30th at 0930. I have been invited to speak to the Sacred Obligation the Government is claiming does not exists and I will be traveling to Ottawa Sunday for meetings Monday and the PC Tuesday morning. It is important that we present a unified front, that veterans of all ages and eras are seen demonstrating support for the Afghanistan wounded by standing in a row behind the principle speakers.

The Canadian Veterans Advocacy has been steadfast and resolute in support of Jim Scott and the Equitas team, indeed, our position has been somewhat justified by the government lawyers claims that veterans should approach our MP's for legislated change... No kidding. Did we not do just this in 2010 when we protested in front of MP's offices nation wide? Was not the CVA was created to continue this fight on the political level?

Yes indeedy.

The mission has yet to conclude, soon, we will once again march on parliament, we will once again encourage our government's MPs to embrace, not ignore, the obligation they have to those they send to war. We need you to stand for Equitas with us next Tuesday, if you are in the Ottawa area and wish to participate, meet us in front of the Peace Tower at 0900 hrs, if not, support our mission as we enter patrolling season next fall when parliament sits. It is our intention to engage on the national level through Remembrance Week, the focus will be the Sacred Obligation and the treatment of those who sacrificed so greatly prior to 2006 will be compared to the standards Equitas is fighting to resolve.

Are you willing to stand for your brothers and sisters? Are you willing to rally in front of your MPs office, to stand on guard for those who stand on guard for thee, to do exactly what the government's lawyers would tell us to do??????

The time has come to start getting organized in your community for a Rally in front of your MPs office, to stand for Kevin Berry, Mark Campbell, Aaron Bedard and all veterans who are subject to this grotesque policy.

We will fight, we you?

Mike, Prez, CVA

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Jeffery M on Sun 28 Jul 2013, 00:39

A part of my soul was raped repeatedly, again and again in the Panjwaii Valley of Kandahar.
I died over there. I have been begging God to give me another chance to have a sacred place in his Kingdom when I pass.
PTSD is not a disorder, but rather a disease. It festers..

Compensations is not a solution, but rather a distraction. But it also is an opportunity. An opportunity to fester the thought, that we that remain, can spread a small token of our recognition, to commit greats deeds. To enhance the human spirit.

One veteran, One standard.

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by F foundry on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 15:08

Just a bit of info that I am sure most already know, I have been very upset since first reading about this issue and can't believe for the life of me that some one thought this was right in reguards to, we the crown have no obligation to Veterans, How about we the people of canada have no obligation to pay taxes!!!

Any ways here is some information:

Pension Act
R.S.C., 1985, c. P-6
An Act to provide pensions and other benefits to or in respect of members of the Canadian naval, army and air forces and of the Canadian Forces
SHORT TITLE
Marginal note:Short title
1. This Act may be cited as the Pension Act.
R.S., c. P-7, s. 1.
CONSTRUCTION
Marginal note:Construction
2. The provisions of this Act shall be liberally construed and interpreted to the end that the recognized obligation of the people and Government of Canada to provide compensation to those members of the forces who have been disabled or have died as a result of military service, and to their dependants, may be fulfilled.
R.S., c. 22 (2nd Supp.), s. 1.

Department of Veterans Affairs Act
R.S.C., 1985, c. V-1
An Act respecting the Department of Veterans Affairs
SHORT TITLE
Marginal note:Short title
1. This Act may be cited as the Department of Veterans Affairs Act.
R.S., 1985, c. V-1, s. 1;
2000, c. 34, s. 95(F).
INTERPRETATION
Definition of “dependant”
1.1 For the purposes of this Act, “dependant” means the spouse or common-law partner or child of any person referred to in subparagraph 4(a)(i), or any other person who provided or received care or support, financial or otherwise, to or from that person.
2011, c. 24, s. 179.
ESTABLISHMENT OF THE DEPARTMENT
Marginal note:Department established
2. (1) There is hereby established a department of the Government of Canada called the Department of Veterans Affairs over which the Minister of Veterans Affairs appointed by commission under the Great Seal shall preside.
Marginal note:Minister
(2) The Minister holds office during pleasure and has the management and direction of the Department.
R.S., 1985, c. V-1, s. 2;
2000, c. 34, s. 94(F).
Marginal note:Deputy head
3. The Governor in Council may appoint an officer called the Deputy Minister of Veterans Affairs to hold office during pleasure and to be the deputy head of the Department.
R.S., 1985, c. V-1, s. 3;
2000, c. 34, s. 94(F).
POWERS, DUTIES AND FUNCTIONS OF THE MINISTER


Marginal note:Powers, duties and functions of Minister
4. The powers, duties and functions of the Minister extend and apply to
(a) the administration of such Acts of Parliament, and of such orders of the Governor in Council, as are not by law assigned to any other department of the Government of Canada or any Minister thereof, relating to
(i) the care, treatment or re-establishment in civil life of any person who served in the Canadian Forces or merchant navy or in the naval, army or air forces or merchant navies of Her Majesty, of any person who has otherwise engaged in pursuits relating to war, and of any other person designated by the Governor in Council, and
(ii) the care of the dependants or survivors of any person referred to in subparagraph (i); and
(b) all such other matters and such boards and other bodies, subjects, services and properties of the Crown as may be designated, or assigned to the Minister, by the Governor in Council.
R.S., 1985, c. V-1, s. 4;
2000, c. 34, s. 11.
Marginal note:Gifts and bequests
4.1 The Minister may accept and administer any property and moneys that are conveyed to the Minister for the benefit of a class or subclass of persons referred to in subparagraph 4(a)(i) or (ii), on such terms and conditions as are set out in the conveyance or, if none are set out, on such terms and conditions as the Minister deems reasonable.
2000, c. 34, s. 12.


Hope it was not to dry LOL
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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 19:28

not dry at all buds great stuff thanks a lot.

propat

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Jeffery M on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 20:18

Unbelievable. No recognized obligation to veterans, my ASS!
Fantastic find F foundry

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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Teentitan on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 20:49

I believe our Ombudsman feels the same way. Go to the Ombudsman thread and read his latest blog...he's not happy with last weeks court dates.
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Re: THE CROWN ARGUED THAT CANADA HAS NO OBLIGATION TO VETERANS

Post by Jeffery M on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 22:57

Will do Teen!

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