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Class action to test government promise to veterans

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Jeffery M on Fri 22 Aug 2014, 00:25

We were sold out. Even tho you signed under the PA. We were sold out.

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by pinger on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 18:34

Trooper wrote,
   "Or is it because the only way to succeed in a cost cutting measure, without looking
as though they were cost cutting, was to bring in the NVC, and add new benefits that appear
on paper superior than benefits in the old system, knowing that very few will have access to them ?"


That is very scary, but not too unrealistic to me when I think out loud...

Circa 2006, the NVC went through quicker than goose grease regardless of party involved. GOC is not stupid.
They read the writing on the wall, the influx of returned/returning hurt veterans and extrapolated. A crystal ball
is not required.
VAC's warm and fuzzy news releases? A facade made out of red herrings (smoke and mirrors).
What about DND's deteriorating jets, ships, and helo's? Paint the rust and you'll save a buck.
Approx. 2 years ago the GOC came out with cutbacks. By every province, every federal department and by the
number of personnal. It added up to thousands of people. (wish I could find the article again).

Accessing benefits? Read the VAC policy documents. What committee wrote them, and their updates?
Someone with a very smart and a very sharp pencil. And at whose expense? Anyone come to mind?

Just the tip of an iceberg, but at the end of the day it's all about greed and money so imo your quote
could have validity. Truth has been stranger than fiction in my experience. Mixing truths with untruths...
is quite another matter. pinger.

I hear you bigrex... "to mitigate future obligations" a point you said better than me. tx
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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 18:22

it was always a cost saving measure pay more up front and pay a whole lot less in the end.

there is a lot of things to consider before sending troops into a war one of these is the financial cost. a big chunk of that is legacy costs such as taking care of the wounded .

if you cant afford it don't go!!!

what you should not do is cut down the commitment to those troops to fit the war into some fracking budget!!!!

that why the cost of ending the buyout doesn't bother me one bit.

give these guys the same benefits I have.

end the buyout now!!!!

propat

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 16:55

Agreed jeff.

Rex,

I do recall something along those lines,
and discussions around it.

Now days they are using words like,

better than the old act, more benefits than the old act, Veterans are better off with the NVC, better transition to civie life ect......

At least that's what I have been reading, and hearing.

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by bigrex on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 16:39

Trooper, there used to be a report on the VAC website, from the bureaucrat that created the NVC, from back in 2004/05 when it was first being discussed. In that report, he stated that the idea behind a lump sum payout, versus the monthly pension, was to mitigate the future financial obligations that will arise from an extended presence in Afghanistan. I have tried looking for that report again, but not surprisingly, it has disappeared from the website.
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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Jeffery M on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 16:37

The 2 compensation systems work best together. And being bought out is the real problem here.

A few complained that they wanted the buyout!? Why??

Was it because they took 30 years to come forward to VAC??

They must have said something like...

"I'm 84 now, and $5200/month tax-free for the rest of my life NOW doesn't work for me. Maybe it works for Afghanistan combat veterans, but so what! I want a lump sum because I'm dying and want to enjoy the next 12 months."

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 16:20

Thanks for your input guys.

The reason for asking is as follows: if the NVC is viewed by those who are defending it as and improvement
over the old act, why do we not see those on the old system wanting to jump on in to the NVC ?

Yes I do agree that some of the benefits in the NVC are improvements over the old act,
however it is becoming clearer by the day, that these such improvements are not accessible
to the Majority of disabled Veterans.
So one has to ask this, is it possible that those who were involved in implementing the NVC new this ?
Is it possible that in order for the NVC to appear better than the old, they came up with these new
benefits, knowing full well that a majority would not receive them ?

Yes, it would be simple to merge the two, or just to add improvements to the old,
but one has to ask this, is it because it is to expensive ?
Or is it because the only way to succeed in a cost cutting measure, without looking
as though they were cost cutting, was to bring in the NVC, and add new benefits that appear
on paper superior than benefits in the old system, knowing that very few will have access to them ?

I think the important question would be this: Why was the NVC brought forward in the first place ?
Well according to the government is was  brought in as and improvement, to allow for disabled Veterans to have a more of secured life,
amongst other things like, to have better transition to civilian life.
Really transition to civilian life ?
They needed to implement the NVC for this ?

Like others, and I have stated before, if the soul intention was to improve the life of disabled Veterans,
the best way to do this would have been to add improvements to the old system.

If the intention is to cut the cost of paying out Veterans benefits,
without making it look like a cost cutting measure,
the best way to do this, would be the implementation of the NVC.

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 15:53

yes bigrex change the buyout to a monthly pension would be the best place to start. the NVC has some good programs im a PA recipient yet im on ELB and getting good rehab benefits from this program . not voc rehab mind you but others. accessibility aside the ELB along with the PIA and supplement are good programs . the NVC can be good if the buyout was changed to a NVC monthly pension mirroring the PA pension . until that time the programs are far from equal and thus unfair.

propat

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Rifleman on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 15:47

Letons

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Teentitan on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 15:00

Like I said Rex too simple for VAC which is full of simpl....!
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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by bigrex on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 13:19

Ideally the best solution would be to keep the NVC, but change the pain and suffering portion (AKA the lump sum disability award) to a monthly tax free pension. Another change would be either switch all EIA recipients to PIA, or start providing them access to the PIA supp. Then, once they fix the access issues with the PIA so that those that are entitled are actually getting it, and stop trying to lump pain and suffering compensation with income replacement, the NVC could actually prove to be a decent piece of legislation.
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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Teentitan on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 12:19

Complete crossover? Don't think I've heard of one.

But straddle both the PA and NVC? Hell yeah!

Why?

The voc rehab. $75K NVC v $50K SISIP. If vet can't do voc rehab spouse can.

Like I have said before there is good and bad under both Acts. The ideal solution of course is to merge them but that is too simple of a solution for the VAC bureaucrats to understand or push the GoC to do.
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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Jeffery M on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 12:09

Trooper, that person doesn't exist. period.

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 10:14

Here is a question directed to anyone, and or everyone;

Has anyone heard of a Veteran who is receiving benefits from the old pension act,
who has come forward stating that they would rather fall under the NVC ?

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Re: Class action to test government promise to veterans

Post by Guest on Wed 20 Aug 2014, 22:24

trooper in this case the ELB PIA and the supplement don't matter its a non issue.

yup the DOJ will try and sell it and use a as many published articles as they can to back it up.  

but its just a sideshow and that's all.

this is about equality and since both PA vets and  NVC vets both receive these benefits it doesn't mean a hill of beans.

its the differences between the two that matter and their is only one substantial difference between the two.

that's what the legal team will concentrate on .

propat

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