Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

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Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by teentitan on Fri 15 Aug 2014, 16:28

Ottawa – August 15, 2014

“Under the New Veterans Charter a Veteran only receives a lump sum payment. There are no monthly payments for life.”

Q: True or False?

A. False

By far the most contentious feature of the New Veterans Charter is the Disability Award, or the lump sum payment. For too many, it is “the be all and end all” of the New Veterans Charter”. This is most unfortunate because it is entirely untrue.

Discussion about the lump sum payment not equating with the lifelong pension have become increasingly polarized around this one method of compensation. One reason for this is that other available New Veterans Charter financial support benefits are simply ignored in the discussion. Too often they are not acknowledged despite the fact that in addition to the Extended Earnings Loss Benefit, which is paid monthly to age 65, and two other benefits – the Permanent Impairment Allowance and the Permanent Impairment Allowance Supplement (the Supplement) – can continue to be paid for life and provide a measure of financial security for the most disabled Veterans.

Let’s look at the Permanent Impairment Allowance first. It is a financial support benefit with the objective of compensating an eligible Veteran for loss of earning capacity, specifically the effects of a service-related permanent and severe impairment on lost employment and career progression opportunities. This benefit is provided in three grade levels. The taxable monthly amounts currently range from $574.89 to $1,724.65. In addition, the Permanent Impairment Allowance Supplement provides additional taxable financial support ($1,056.96 per month) to Veterans who are in receipt of the Permanent Impairment Allowance, are assessed to be totally and permanently incapacitated and are no longer able to participate in any suitable and gainful employment.

What is the financial impact of these benefits on a permanently and severely impaired Veteran who was medically released at the Corporal rank with four years of service (monthly before tax salary of $4,622), and an assessed disability level of 80 percent? The Veteran is unable to work and is also assessed to be totally and permanently incapacitated. The example below shows the maximum that could be received if all of the benefits could be assessed by this Veteran.

This Veteran would receive a tax-free one-time lump sum disability award of approximately $241,000 to compensate for the pain and suffering resulting from his service-related injury (the award amount can be provided as an annual payment). Since the lump sum payment is strictly for pain and suffering, the Veteran would also receive the Extended Earnings Loss Benefit until the age of 65. This is a taxable monthly amount equal to 75 percent of gross pre-release salary, less other sources of income such as the Canadian Forces pension. In addition, the Veteran could receive the Permanent Impairment Allowance and the Supplement on a monthly basis for life, as long as eligibility requirements are met.

Until the age of 65 (and assuming the Veteran is awarded the Permanent Impairment Allowance at the lowest grade level), approximately $5,100 per month in taxable monthly economic financial support could be provided. If the Veteran was eligible for the Permanent Impairment Allowance at the highest grade level, the amount would be approximately $6,250 per month.

In essence, this Veteran, who was medically released at the Corporal-basic pay grade, could receive (until age 65) financial support that approximates the pay rate of a Master-Corporal at pay grade 3. If the Veteran was eligible for the Permanent Impairment Allowance at the highest grade level 1, financial support that approximates the pay rate of a Warrant-Officer at pay grade 3 could be received. Although this is a maximum value, it does show what the New Veterans Charter is capable of providing.

One problem that I and others have identified is that when the Veteran reaches the age of 65, the Extended Earnings Loss Benefit ceases and the financial monthly support from Veterans Affairs Canada is reduced to the Permanent Impairment Allowance and Supplement. A one-time taxable lump-sum Supplementary Retirement Benefit would also be paid, which has an average payout of under $5,000. This reduction in financial support after the age of 65 needs to be a priority issue for this government and I am pleased that the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs took it up in its hearings and deliberations and made a recommendation to government to address this issue.

In summary, those who believe that the New Veterans Charter should be tossed out and the Pension Act restored as the sole legislative vehicle for Veterans’ programs and benefits forget that had it not been for Veterans’ frustration with the Pension Act, there probably would not be a New Veterans Charter today. Also, the Charter was not brought into being just to replace the lifelong pension of the Pension Act. Its focus is on wellness and facilitating the transition for Veterans and their families from military to civilian life – not just on compensation for pain and suffering, as was the case with the Pension Act.

While acknowledging that there are issues to be resolved with financial support after a Veteran reaches the age of 65 and that the Earnings Loss Benefit needs to be raised at least 10 percent so that there is no drop in net income for Veterans during their transition from military to civilian life, it cannot be said that a Veterans only gets a lump sum payment under the New Veterans Charter. Simply put, as it stands today under the New Veterans Charter, a seriously disabled Veteran can receive monthly payments until age 65 that equate to a salary one or two ranks higher than their current rank – this is reduced at age 65 when the Earnings Loss Benefit ceases. If my recommendations are adopted, financial security after age 65 will be secured.

Now having said how these allowances can positively affect the financial security of Veterans, there is a problem with accessing the programs. My next blog on Monday will address this. Then next Tuesday, I will be releasing a report that details these and other issues with the Permanent Impairment Allowance and the Supplement. The report will recommend changes to improve access to these benefits for Veterans who suffer from a service-related permanent and severe impairment that impacts their employment and career progression opportunities.

Stay tuned.

Guy

http://www.ombudsman-veterans.gc.ca/eng/blog/post/249
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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Guest on Fri 15 Aug 2014, 18:59

for me this issue is the be all and end all. and no I never thought or do think theirs is no monthly benefits available nor do I think a return to the pension act is the answer.

every seriously disabled vet I know wants a return to the monthly pension and NOT THE PENSION ACT!!!! NONE of these people believe their is no monthly pensions available access to these benefits however are still in question.

yes the BUYOUT can be taken as an annual payment this we all know that but no matter how you take it it still adds up to APROX 9.25 years of the PA monthly payments.

yup the monthlies are there and also available to PA disabled vets .

GUY I ASK YOU THIS. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ALL VETS BEING TREATED  EQUALLY?????

I read all the recommendations and although good ones (in lieu of having a NVC monthly pension in line with the PA pension )and does address a lot of concerns equality being an exception.

an NVC monthly pension in line with the PA pension would address most of those concerns and some others along with the equality issue.

wow one change and one change only that could accomplish so much and treat all disabled vets equally at the same time and no one wants to touch ohhh except for the actual vets that are on it almost forgot about them as so many others have!!!!!!

if you want to keep on implying that people that want a return to the monthly PA style pension act UNDER THE NVC want a return to the pension act  or that we think that their is no other monthly pensions available ( to both NVC and PA vets )  you go ahead but im here to say.

THAT IS JUST NOT THE CASE!!!!!

yes a return to the monthly pension IS THE BE ALL AND END ALL!!!!

I WILL BE READING !!!!

stay tuned

always question authority

propat

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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by teentitan on Fri 15 Aug 2014, 19:57

propat believe me I've been at the stakeholder meetings, I post all the stories on Latest news, talk to a lot vet organizations and A LOT of them want the NVC scrapped and the PA brought back.

Like you I'm looking forward to these blogs because the OVO is doing what VAC should have done back in 2006...EXPLAIN THE NVC IN PLAIN BLUE COLLAR TALK!!!

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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Guest on Fri 15 Aug 2014, 21:05

ohh organization well im not goanna start a rant on them until I can free up a couple of days but im sure you are right WHY they would want that I have no idea but as ive seen form A LOT of organizations of all walks they seem to have an agenda or agendas. if you can find out what it is then you will know WHY. but what I can tell you is what the actual disabled afgan vets think or post 2006 vets think you know the troops themselves who seem to get lost in all the BS politicks and ( maybe the answer to the question posed above ) posturing .

THEY the actual people on this ill conceived NVC don't want a return to the PA and know their is monthly pensions available ( how available is another matter ) they just want one thing.

EQUALITY!!!!!

I get really worried when this guy throws numbers around showing maximums like fantino .

remember when fantino made that $10,000.00 comment and was called on it ???

fantino did not address it but his office did.

they sayed if memory serves me that was based on a major with 27 years service getting the maximum benefits and included his pention. when asked how many vets are collecting maximum benefits they said 4 . that's right 4. hell teen I know 4 just in this are that should be getting the max but they are getting the minimum PIA just like me but then again im on the PA unlike them so im good.

so ya see when people start throwing examples around using maximums it kinda pees me off because although it does jive with the charts its not reality.

the numbers on those charts can not feed the families of our disabled vets.

throwing out examples using maximums will not feed the families of our disabled vets.

what they actually receive either can or cannot feed the families of our disabled vets.

if the buyout is changed to a NVC monthly pension equal to the PA pension that WILL feed the families of our disabled vets.

don't ya think we really aught to do that?????

im just fracking disgusted after reading that tripe and getting physically ill over it .

always question authority

propat


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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by teentitan on Fri 15 Aug 2014, 21:27

propat that pretty little VAC chart is why the OVO is doing the series of blogs to show the truth behind the pretty little VAC chart.

I take this first blog to be for the vets/vet orgs who are screaming about bringing the PA back that the monthly payments are there and better then the PA.

I'm hoping the next blogs by Guy explain the difficulty of getting to the levels of benefits/money for the severely disabed vets.

I wouldn't mind seeing actual numbers of clients on each level of PIA, PIA Supplement, EELB etc in one of Guy's blogs.

Next week's blogs are hopefully as interesting as the first two!
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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Guest on Fri 15 Aug 2014, 21:38

I like the first one but this one is really less than helpful as it seems he is really taking issue with those that think a monthly NVC pension is a good thing and he seems to be pulling a fantino by throwing the numbers around like he does using maximums .

oh here is that CBC report ya probably seen this but their is some numbers their for you if you haven't.

Only four of Canada's 521 severely wounded Canadian veterans might be eligible to receive up $10,000 per month in allowances and benefits under the Conservative government's beefed-up veteran's charter.


Veterans Affairs Minister Julian Fantino recently cited the dollar figure to illustrate the Conservative government's generosity towards ex-service members.

However, statistics released by his own department show payments of that size would be rare indeed — and maybe even purely theoretical.

The remaining 92 per cent of veterans who receive payments — the permanent impairment allowance, the permanent impairment supplement and the earnings loss benefit — collect far less each month.

The $10,000 figure also includes the monthly Canadian Forces pension, a payment that's made whether a soldier was injured or not.

Calculating precise amounts can be a head-spinning exercise, given the cross-section of benefits, stipends and supplementary payments available to all veterans.

Asked how many wounded soldiers receive anything close to $10,000 per month, department officials would only say the figure represents a "scenario" of a severely wounded major released after 27 years of service and that four soldiers receive the top tier of allowances.

© The Canadian Press, 2014
The Canadian Press

propat


Last edited by propat on Fri 15 Aug 2014, 21:56; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : opps cut off the top part sory)

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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Trooper on Sun 17 Aug 2014, 19:07

Well unless someone can prove that the NVC is more beneficial than the old system,
you can show me all the charts, you can compare the old with the new,
but at the end of the day, proof is needed.
What would make me look twice is if a good number of vets on the old system,
would come out and praise the NVC.
So far I have not seen that.

Yes, the NVC has ELB, and the ones on the old system have the SISIP LTD,
both which are taxed.

On the old system we have the VIP which can add up to a good Monthly income which is tax free.

Take a look at a Veterans earned tax free pension income for a period of 20 years,
who is on the old system, take into account that the Veteran is at 100%,
and is also receiving the VIP, add in the cola for those 20 years.
Take note of the total.

Now take a look at the total allowable payout for the lump sum,
then add in the other benefits allowable for the NVC.

Now compare the two amounts, keeping in mind that the Veteran
who is on the old system, pension will only increase with the cola
going forward.  

Now you tell me which is better, the old, or the new ?

P.S Please don't post your numbers you have come out with,
     just in case the rod poster is watching,
     don't want to get em upset.

Myth Busting the New Veterans charter is better than the old system.

Q: True or False ?

A: ?


Myth Busting the soul purpose the NVC was implemented was to outperform the old system, so that the disable Veteran would have more financial security.

Q; True or False ?

A: ?

Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter since implemented has been embraced by most disabled Veterans.

Q: True or False ?

A: ?

Myth Busting those who support and show the claimed benefits of the NVC have proven to be successful in their claim.

Q: True or False

A: ?

Right or wrong, this is my own opinion on the matter, I am exercising my freedom of speech.
So if any disagree feel free to exercise your freedom of speech.
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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by bigrex on Sun 17 Aug 2014, 20:19

I think that the biggest flaw in the NVC, is the focus on only the most severely disabled. There a lot of Veterans who are only "moderately disabled" according to VAC, that have difficulty finding and maintaining suitable employment. They may not have reached the magical number set by VAC to get access to any of these benefits, such as PIA and extended ELB, but they still have to live the rest of their lives with these disabilities. With the PA, or a similar lifelong pension under the NVC, they could at least count on that money for financial stability, because currently, unless you are severely disabled, THERE IS NO ONGOING MONTHLY FINANCIAL SUPPORT!
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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Jeffery M on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 00:06

Well I suppose I couldn't stay away forever. Still dealing with all the lovely garbage that PTSD gives each day. PTSD...terrible name. Anyone can have Post Traumatic Stress...your mom dies from complications of cancer; ulcer. The latest new chemotherapy treatment. You blame yourself cause you didn't stop her from the risky drugs.
I know what I have. PTSD is just a polite word.no one wants to here what it really is. Shock. It's bloody shock. Shell shock, IED shock, extended beyond extended gun battle shock, LAV 3 too close cannon firing shock, watching your peer bleed out to death shock..
8 years, and my body is still reeling. Shock. Just when you think to let your guard down...forget it. You know those tremors you feeling inside? The irregular heart beat you get? Yeah that's right..  
You know, the idea of receiving a capped one time payment, even spread out over a few years, don't jive with modern day heroes. If I for example were to not know myself well enough, I'd have attempted...attempted to have found employment. And then had given up. Given up on myself.
The reason a pension works is because it is sustainable. A lump sum is not. Impossible. Why is it that we have 2 current systems? Is it to prove how unequal we are?? Will then, the current PA recipients for go their PA pensions for a sum? Please do......well?...I'm waiting...
If you are the guy. Yes the guy who is trying to figure out how pay your rent this month, because your lump sum has run it's time out, and you were just fired from your job, for uttering threats, please...please ask the lump sum gods why!! Why did you run out lump sum? Why?
It's a lonely road to take, when you do it alone.


Last edited by Jeffery M on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 00:15; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Wording)

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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 07:06

big rex you are right of course but but I have to add that the focus on the severely disabled is lip service alone as the vast majority of the severely disabled  that actually receive ANY compensation receive the lowest level of monthly compensation . and how many of the SEVERLY disabled vets receive the highest level???   FOUR !!!!!! makes me sick!!!!

IN PRACTICE the real focus of the NVC is to save money!!!!

ALWAYS QUESTION ATHORITY

propat

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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 07:17

trooper the the NVC and PA are exactly the same or almost exactly the same depending on your situation with the exception of the buyout VS the monthly pension . the math is all in the buyout VS the month. the buyout is worth aprox 9.25 years of the monthly not counting for cola witch is recived in the monthly but not for the buyout. so im guessing you have my answers .

propat

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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 07:18

Jeffery great post buds keep on keeping on brother.

propat

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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Trooper on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 07:25

I would like to respectfully make comments on the following para,

{ In summary, those who believe that the New Veterans Charter should be tossed out and the Pension Act restored as the sole legislative vehicle for Veterans’ programs and benefits forget that had it not been for Veterans’ frustration with the Pension Act, there probably would not be a New Veterans Charter today. Also, the Charter was not brought into being just to replace the lifelong pension of the Pension Act. Its focus is on wellness and facilitating the transition for Veterans and their families from military to civilian life – not just on compensation for pain and suffering, as was the case with the Pension Act. }

If in fact that by Veterans who were frustrated with the pension act, and by simply addressing and or challenging the act to better the act resulted in the implementing of the NVC, if this turns out to be the case, even if it only was a contributing factor, in my view would not be fair, and or justifiable.
We must always invite those who want to challenge the act, it is simply just a way of doing business, it also gives fairness to disable Veterans who are just simply trying to make life a bit more secured, it is not challenged in the form of greed, rather it is just challenged to better the act, not replace it.
By implementing the NVC it may have given new benefits that were challenged, and or asked for in the old act, these new benefits came with a price, and the price is taken away the long term pension.
If the intention is to improve the lives of disable Veterans, one does not have to be well educated to realize that by simply adding these new benefits implemented in the NVC , leaving out the lump sum of course,  into the old pension act, would have without any doubt improved the lives of disable Veterans across this Country, and would have certainly been a welcome improvement.
What has taken place here is a system geared towards  cost cutting measures against the back of disabled Veterans, this system is defined as the NVC.
Perhaps they maybe a number of individuals who disagree, and no matter the argument, will stand behind the NVC, I do not have a problem with that, as that is the way in which they view, and or understand it.

In closing I will say this,

This issue is set to go before the courts, it is in this way we will all finally get the answers we were all asking.
I am going to speculate that the courts will see right through this.
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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 07:59

love the post trooper great insight buds.

always question authority

propat

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Re: Myth Busting the New Veterans Charter Lump Sum Payment

Post by Trooper on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 08:04

Thanks propat,

I would like to ask if you agree what I have stated, that the courts will see right through this ?
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