Should we have a Royal Commission?

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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Guest on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 19:19

trooper nationally the cons performance on the vets issue will have an effect on the election and if its a close one it will have a large effect in certain ridings . fantinos performance will not have that effect outside of his own riding . since keeping him in place would cost them nothing and keep them from losing one seat im all but certain he will be running this year with a cabinet position and since I can see no one else they can shuffle ( right now ) it will probably be in his current position.

propat

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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Trooper on Sun 14 Dec 2014, 15:27

propat,

That may very well turn out to be the case.

All I can say is don't under estimate Harper's ability to move, change, shuffle, or for a lack of better words force any Cabinet Minister out at any time he sees fit.

We are not dealing with a spring chicken here, Harper is extremely good in how he handles situations like this.

I don't think Harper is known to fold under pressure, that is why he waited until xmas break, I can guarantee you this very issue is being discussed now, and has been discussed prior to the xmas break.
Why do you think Fantino was nowhere to be found in the last Week of sitting.

Wait for it, that's what I think.
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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Guest on Sun 14 Dec 2014, 16:48

trooper agreed he knows what he is doing and if he can move him he will . the thing is in a close election Ontario WILL be the battleground . there is a couple of post fantino could take over in AB but dropping a AB cabinet post is a place I don't think harper will go. Duncan out in BC minister of state maybe could be dropped . just thinking out loud here mind you . the way this election is shaping up I wouldn't expect a whole lot of cabinet moves . and when they make the few moves they make don't expect Ontario who has as many positions as alberta BC and Quebec combined to lose ANY in fact they may add one or two .

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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Trooper on Sun 14 Dec 2014, 17:57

propat,

If Harper moves or shuffles or swaps Fantino within the cabinet, Fantino's riding will remain in Vaughan.

Just like when they swapped Peter Mackay's cabinet post with Rob Nicholson's cabinet post, both kept their own riding.

If Fantino was to resign as cabinet minister, and if he chooses to stay on with the conservatives, he will keep his riding of Vaughan, and will now be and MP for the riding of Vaughan, just like it was before he became a cabinet minister.

If Fantino resigns and walks away from politics, his riding will be lost.

Harper doesn’t fire people for doing what their told which is why Fantino still has his job. Nor has the PM ever had a problem with sending a bricklayer to repair a Rolex. In fact, Harper has used Fantino’s tough guy ex-cop image in every one of his postings to “scare the ‘crats” internally, as one insider put it the “‘crats” being bureaucrats. Since Harper is still persuaded the public service is an enemy, Fantino performs a very useful service.

But Stephen Harper does fire people when they become liabilities. It can be one glass of orange juice too many, the embarrassing antics of a spouse or simply having worn out one’s credibility by telling too many whoppers on behalf of the boss. Fantino has reached that place where what he brings to the feast is far less than what he devours.
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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Guest on Sun 14 Dec 2014, 20:28

ya trooper not sure what you are getting at in the first part their maybe you misread something . when I said they may move him to another post or cabinet post I meant just that . if you were thinking I meant riding that is not the case as im thinking at this time Vaughan is the only ore one of two ridings he could win so doing that would probably equate to losing a seat the same as him not running at all .

this is what I have been saying all along they need him to run and they need him to run in Vaughan preferably with a cabinet post or it will be lost . harper WILL NOT ask him not to run
HELL if he decides not to he will be urged to stay. will he be striped of a post ?? not fracking likely !!!! will they move him to another post???? certainly this seems practical on its face but im sure it may have to be a major post ( maybe not )  I really don't see any out their for him except the ones I mentioned previously . like I said previously im not sure harper will go there.

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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Trooper on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 15:27

propat,

I don't think I miss read, I was responding to your post above when you stated that if "Fantino was to take over in AB but dropping a AB cabinet post is a place I don't think harper will go".
In my response I was simply stating that if Fantino was to swap a cabinet post he remains in his home riding of Vaughad, so to use your example about "Fantino taking over and Alberta post", he simply would be replacing the Cabinet minister who was from Alberta, and where ever the Cabinet minister from Alberta goes he will also keep his home riding in Alberta, sure he would have a different Cabinet post, but his riding would still be in Alberta, same goes for Fantino, regardless of the change of ( CABINET POST ) both their riding's will remain unchanged.

As far as him not running at all, that will happen only if he resigns, and leaves the Conservatives caucus, in that case the Conservatives will delegate someone else to run for the riding of Vaughan.

Also as I have stated above, if Fantino resigns and stays with the conservatives as and MP he will run as and MP instead of running as a cabinet minister.

One thing to keep in mind here is regardless if he runs as a cabinet minister, MP, or even a backbencher, he is never guaranteed to win his riding of Vaughan.

As far as Harper asking Fantino not to run, if he was to kick Fantino out of caucus, he would be doing just that, not likely, but possible.

As far as him stripping Fantino of a Cabinet post within all Cabinet post, this would be done in the form of Fantino resigning his post, and like I have stated, if he continues to be and MP for the Conservative party, he will run as a Conservative MP for the riding of Vaughan in the next Federal election.

As far as you not seeing any way out for Harper, except for the ones you mentioned, propat, like I said, he has plenty of options  available to him, and nothing will stop him from doing what he sees fit for his party, even if it puts a seat in jeopardy, he may gain more seats by taken whatever action he chooses, this is politics, and like I also said, he is very good at what he does.

We just have to wait and see what action, if any, Harper does take to really have a sense - of the outcome.
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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 16:48

ya got me a little confused trooper but ill post the entire sentence you quoted and maybe you can show me where I said he would take a AB RIDING as opposed to an AB post???

trooper agreed he knows what he is doing and if he can move him he will . the thing is in a close election Ontario WILL be the battleground . there is a couple of post fantino could take over in AB but dropping a AB cabinet post is a place I don't think harper will go.

ie; if fantino takes an AB cabinet post Ontario gains one cabinet post AB looses one. yup ive already said he may add one or 2 in Ontario but if you look at his fondness for AB I don't think he will do it at their expense.

will fantino win his riding ??? sure he still has some good support although it has dwindled a bit.

could he win not holding a post??? shure he could .

the thing is historically cabinet members running for re-election  have a much larger success rate than MP,s that do not hold posts .

this is why that most posts are handed out primarily with political strategy as the primary concern and choosing who can do the job best as a secondary concern. not the other way around.

propat

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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Trooper on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 18:10

propat,

You may very well be correct - or I may have miss read what you have posted - but I will write the way in which I understand what you wrote.

Under this thread - post 18 - you state that " ( There is a couple of post Fantino could take over in  "ALBERTA" but dropping a "ALBERTA CABINET POST" is a place I don't think Harper will go ) "

What I am trying to say to you is that " correct me if I'm wrong " there is no such thing as dropping and Alberta Cabinet post.
When you state there is a couple of post Fantino could take over in Alberta, what do you mean by that as it relates to the subject at hand ?
The way in which I read your statement you are saying that if Fantino swaps cabinet post with the now Alberta's Cabinet minister, he now, Fantino that is, becomes and Alberta Cabinet Minister ? Again I could be miss reading your statement, and I do APOLOGIZE if that is the case. Just trying to learn here as we go.
No, Fantino would still be a cabinet minister from Ont even though he is now changed cabinet post with a cabinet minister from Alberta.
Mr. Fantino new cabinet post  -  would not be defined as a " ALBERTA CABINET POST "

To the best of my knowledge and understanding there is no such thing as a provincial cabinet post - the province in which a cabinet minister holds as a riding - or home riding - remains unchanged no matter which cabinet post he - or she - holds now - or changes cabinet post in the future.

So what I may be miss reading is your wording of " dropping a Alberta Cabinet Post "

Again, I could be off on my statement - perhaps way off - and do apologize for it - anyhow that does not change the fact that I enjoy exchanging views and thoughts with you, my respect for you is there, and will always be there.
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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 18:52

ok first a post and a riding are two different animals of that we both can agree .

so when I said post I meant post not riding .

if I wanted to say riding I actually would have said riding .

what I meant by that was their is cabinet ministers in Alberta that are completely safe and loosing a cabinet post would not effect those ridings whatsoever .

I was discussing actual cabinet movements not just a shuffle probably with the intent of adding one or two posts to Ontario witch I can see happening to try and sure up shaky ridings . the resulting effect would be another province ore provinces loosing one ore two.

dropping fantino from a post altogether an Ontario MP would make this more difficult.

these positions would have to come from riding witch are considered safe or already lost.

by an AB or Ontario or BC cabinet post I mean one that is held by a MP in those specific provinces and a term commonly used while discussing cabinet assignment's and movements especially in the media.

propat



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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Trooper on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 19:51

Great exchange of post there propat.

I now fully understand what you meant - and what you were saying.

Just did not read it - or understand it the way that you just explained it.

Thanks for that, and sorry buds for miss understanding what you were saying.

It's all about getting a better understanding of what lies ahead for us with respect to what may be in the cards be it with Fantino - or no Fantino going forward into the Federal election.

Politics has always been and important subject in the minds of Veterans, as it is the politicians who power what we get - or don't get.
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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 20:19

yes buds you are absolutely correct it has always been an important subject for vets and will become even more important in the years to come as more disabled afghan or post 06 vets will unfortunately find their way into the system and more important still when they hit those desperate years after their release  when the buyout money runs dry .

that is starting to happen now as time goes on the voices will get louder and angrier .

propat

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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 20:24

Fantino is very popular and well liked in Toronto. Especially in his riding and Toronto has always been a liberal/NDP stronghold that Harper has always wanted. I am not sure if Harper will risk sacking Fantino because with him running in Vanghan it's a guaranteed win for conservatives. If Harper really cared about the veterans and wanted to put this to rest, he would ave fixed the whole thing, but I am thinking it might cost too much and Harper being a smart man knows that every month approx 2000 veterans are dying from old age and other causes. Within 10 years most ww2 and Korean vets will be gone so maybe Harper just doesn't believe the numbers justify the worry or expense. If Harper wanted this fixed it would be, it's not and he has no intention of fixing it.

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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Guest on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 15:39

nav buds you couldn't be more right it could be a pig in a blue tie that won that riding for the cons  HE would get a cabinet post even if they had to make one for him minister of swine relations or something . ya I said PIG in a blue tie I have too many for that so you guys play with that if you will. fantino did have a lot of support it has dwindled a but still strong and in my opinion the cons ONLY chance of holding  that  riding . loosing his cabinet post will not help with that and just may hurt .

moving him to another post in a shuffle is in my opinion the only way to get him out of the vet portfolio but like I said before I looked at all the posts and the ones I can see they could move him to the ones I previously mentioned I don't see harper going there.

JMO

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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by teentitan on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 16:43

Listen guys you don't live near his riding...I do and it only went Conservative in a by-election 6/7 years ago. It was a Liberal strong hold as it is just above Toronto.

He doesn't have to be holding a cabinet position to win the next election...IF HE DECIDES TO RUN.

Vaughan is a very fickle riding. Right now the MPP is a Liberal. I'm not saying he wouldn't win but he may very well lose as well. It doesn't matter if he is holding a cabinet position or not.

Propat you are bordering disrespect so throttle the description back. Yes he is not a good MVA but we are veterans and have better respect then that. OK.

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Re: Should we have a Royal Commission?

Post by Guest on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 23:11

#1

Listen guys you don't live near his riding...I do and it only went Conservative in a by-election 6/7 years ago. It was a Liberal strong hold as it is just above Toronto.

this is what me and nav were saying

# 2

He doesn't have to be holding a cabinet position to win the next election...IF HE DECIDES TO RUN.

something I have already said but and I fracking quote myself with some capitals added " loosing his cabinet post will not help with that and just MAY hurt.

NO of course you do not need a cabinet post to win your riding I don't think they can invent enough posts to win an election but im sure they wold try nor have I EVER FRACKIN SAID THAT.

please DO NOT put words in my mouth that I did NOT say what I said and I quote myself again.

"the thing is historically cabinet members running for re-election  have a much larger success rate than MP,s that do not hold posts . "

take me to task for what I ACYULALY said NOT for what you ASSUME I said .

IM bordering on disrespect ???? I wrote a sentence and after the fact seen a little humor in it . but wait didn't disrespect anyone even though I really fracking wanted to but added one sentence so as to leave it up to everyone else's imagination to keep the humor.

AGAIN take me to task for what I ACYULALY said NOT for what you ASSUME I said .

AND IM BORDERING ON DISRESPECT !!!!

WTF

WOW

I GET THAT YOU HATE ME .

that's been apparent to everyone here for a long time .

doesn't bother me non.

ya I probably could have said something about him and a trench coat then I really would have been bordering on disrespect NO IN FACT SHOWING ACTUAL DISRESPECT to fantino no less and we all know we should not say anything disrespectful about a MVA NO SIR not on this site and im sure I would have been publicly admonished even more so than I have for showing no disrespect at all.

endless of cores I was someone else!!!!

UN FRACKIN BELIVABLE !!!!

ALWAYS FRACKIN QUESTION ATHORITY!!!!

PROPAT

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