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IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by Guest on Tue 10 Feb 2015, 17:21

like that button, Rex

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by bigrex on Mon 09 Feb 2015, 11:55

I agree Loggie. The "leave no man behind" mentality is what make the military a true brotherhood (sorry trying to disrespect any of the women who have served). It doesn't matter if you personally like your fellow soldier, sailor or airman, but when they come under fire, be it by a foreign enemy, or our own government, we will do whatever we can to come to their aide.
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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by loggie on Sun 08 Feb 2015, 14:44

The "real" world could learn a lot from the way OUR family works!!!!!

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by pinger on Sat 07 Feb 2015, 17:25

Big thumbs up to you Rex. Case in point for simply helping each other on this site. pinger.
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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by Guest on Sat 07 Feb 2015, 16:33

great job bigrex .

propat

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by Rifleman on Sat 07 Feb 2015, 14:42

Now that is what CSAT is all about vets helping vets well done Big Rex and good luck Loggie

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by loggie on Sat 07 Feb 2015, 13:17

WOW! THANK YOU Bigrex. This is perfect. I sincerely appreciate your assistance. Wishing you well,
Loggie

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by bigrex on Sat 07 Feb 2015, 11:08

From the SISIP decison

"[27] What is clear from the Pension Act and the Minister’s Table is that the monthly benefit payable to disabled members of the CF is not intended to be a form of income replacement. Instead, it is designed to compensate for the loss of amenities of life and for the personal limitations and sacrifices that arise from disabling injuries. This is not entirely lost on the Defendant. According to a 2004 Reference Paper prepared by Veterans Affairs Canada, the purpose of Pension Act disability benefits is to “provide compensation for reductions in the quality, and sometimes the quantity, of life experienced by the disabled” and not, as is commonly believed, to provide a form of income replacement: Affidavit of Sergeant John G. Bartlett (22 September 2011), Exhibit “B” at p 8 (“Reference Paper: The Origins and Evolution of Veterans Benefits in Canada, 1914-2004” (March 2004) at p 5, also available online: ). "

The entire document can be found here

http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/60778/index.do
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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by loggie on Sat 07 Feb 2015, 10:28

Teen, can you help me by showing me where " The judge candidly pointed out that the PA is not an income replacement " is found? I am in la la land right now and can't seem to escape...which is nerve wracking.
Thanks

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by Guest on Fri 06 Feb 2015, 13:52

loggie,

I am with you my friend in not liking the fact that they take a non - taxable benefit and gross it up for the purpose of determining the amount to be paid.
This is Bxxx Sxxx.

This is what happen to me and I totally lost it both in and out of court, and you know what the Judge even gave me the impression that it was Bxxx Sxxx.
It's not enough they get portions of your CF pension, CPPD, SISIP, and any other taxable income you have - No that's not enough they go after the tax free DVA pension - They will go after every penny they can get their hands on - to me it's more of a cash grab then anything else.

Don't get me wrong I do not mind paying my fair share of support - By fair share I mean taxable income - not tax free income.
To gross this up in my mind puts the disable Veteran at a disadvantage over the rest of the Country's population who are going through a divorce/separation.


Is this fair ? In my mind and many others absolutely not ! I can say to you I did everything possible to keep my tax free pension out of court with no success.
It is very difficult to obtain a Lawyer who is familiar with tax free pensions from Veterans Affairs.
The only real chance one has is to obtain one outside the Family Law services, even the ones outside Family Law would be hard to find with respect to the degree of knowledge one would have in the matter, not to mention the cost associated with.
Not trying to discourage you - just passing on what I have experienced in the matter.

In closing,

I hear and understand your frustration as I have been through this and experienced it first hand.
In my own opinion the only way to see change in this tax free pension matter would be either it to be challenged in court, and be successful in the challenge which would be very costly and lengthy.
The other would have to come from a change in the pension act.
Again not trying to discourage you, my intention is simply to share what I have experienced in this matter.

Best of luck to you, and try not to let this get the best of you.

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by Teentitan on Fri 06 Feb 2015, 13:01

Use the SISIP LTD lawsuit as proof it is not income replacement then. The judge candidly pointed out that the PA is not an income replacement and you know as well as everyone else if the government did consider it income replacement the lawsuit would still be in the courts being argued.

So using this you can consider you caught the grenade and had enough time to throw it right back in her foxhole! LOL
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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by loggie on Fri 06 Feb 2015, 12:57

Good point Teen unfortunately the grenade was launched by them first, telling us to prove it.
I would even settle for something official that says it is a gratuity for loss of Quality of Life but I am at a loss as to finding something.
And FYI, her lawyers nickname is Kibbles and Bits and not for her looks but for the way she locks on to a point and will not let go.

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by Guest on Fri 06 Feb 2015, 12:24

Good one Teen absolute GAME ON with that Loggie

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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by Teentitan on Fri 06 Feb 2015, 11:28

loggie this is where the problem lies and it is extrememly difficult to get an answer.

VAC likes to call a PA payment a "disability pension" where initially it was deemed a "gratuity".

VAC calls it a disability pension because it's government jargon to make it look like the GoC is taking care of veterans. But ask them how many disability pensions are tax-free in Canada they will go silent.

I made the mistake of calling my PA pension a disability pension when the Liberals were in power and Minister Albino Guarnierri ripped me a new one by say "It's not a disability pension it is a gratuity from the people of Canada for the loss of your quality of life".

So it depends on who is in charge on what you can call it.

So I suggest that you tell your lawyer it is NOT an income replacement it is a pain and suffering payment.

Make your ex prove it is a disability pension/income replacement.
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Re: IS THE DISABILITY AWARD AN INCOME REPLACEMENT OR PROVIDED FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING

Post by loggie on Fri 06 Feb 2015, 09:25

I hear what everyone is saying but we are digressing.
I know that the Disability pension is used for calculating spousal and child support. What I do NOT like is the fact that they take a non-taxable benefit and gross it up for the purposes of determining the amounts to be paid.
My lawyer asked, "Is the disability pension awarded for pain and suffering endured during service or is it simply an income replacement or supplement"?
Thus I am looking for the reference that defines that specific question.
To all those who have already replied, THANK YOU, all of your input is being collated for my use.
I wish one and all a great day.

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