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CPPD/SISIP

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by Hoist Op on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 18:19

So, pretty sure the answer is already in here somewhere, but i'm a bit turned around so I need a check heading call.

I'm 3b (28 YOS release date 15 feb 2019, currently on retention), going on the 2 year LTD as a minimum. May go to school, may not. Its kind of a TBD situation as i have some physical limitations as well as a few "squirrels out of thier cages" and chewing on the wiring upstairs.

I've got this part down:

1. Get my pension (is what it is)
2. Get LTD (75% top up)
3. Get ELB from VAC (90% top up)

Now the "sort of" got it down stuff:

1. Sisip will request CPPD application (in the policy) and to be first payee (not in the policy)
2. Pension will also want my CPPD
3. Loose bridge benefit on CPPD, but CPPD is as much as bridge benefit + what regular CPP would be (ie:nulls out, monthly overall stays pretty much the same just more cheques to wait on)
4. Do not elect sisip as first payee on form.

Heres where it gets foggy:

1. Pensions has first rights to my CPPD repayment (if backdated scenario, if not i assume pension is just reduced amount of cppd)?
2. What does sisip get if pensions takes my CPPD payment (same backdated scenario as a above)?
3. Does both pensions and sisip get my full cppd amount? Definitely doesnt seem right as surely I can't  be liable to repay the same money twice when only recieved it once.
4. Where does the VAC ELB (90%) figure in to all this? Or do they not look at my cppd at all?
5. What happens at tax time? Surely you get a revised T4 from those agencies you repaid in that year?  Surely you're not taxed on money you didnt actually recieve?

Again, sorry if its all already in here. Having a little trouble putting things together in my brain and then keeping them together...

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by Teentitan on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 11:05

Umbrella did you try asking for a CSA, Client Service Agent? They work for the CM and are supposed to assist you for things like this.

If they are still refusing to help then contact the Ombudsman's Office and file a complaint.

Just because your husband is DEC doesn't give your District Office permission to IGNORE your needs.
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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by RCN-Retired on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 22:05

Do you guys have a My Veterans Account? If not suggest you set one up that way you can use the email function to send emails to get answers from VAC, it has worked ok for me. It also lets you track other things like pensions received and dollar amounts. In having SISIP the one thing they insist on is we have to apply for CPPD, in the end your SISIP will go down the same dollar amount as your CPPD. When I was looking at all this a few years back it was explained that since I was totally disabled it would be a benefit to me to apply for CPPD based on the years that would go by from me making CPP contributions and age 60. I my case it would have been about 15 years of not contributing so my CPP at age 60 would be a lot less because of the 15 years of not contributing. So being approved revenue neutral against SISIP at the time, I would be better off at age 65 when SISIP stops and I would continue to receive the higher CPPD. The only thing I had to learn was yet a new type of patience because of having to deal with SISIP, CPPD and CAF Pensions was not fun but in the end things worked out just took far to long. Hope this helps a bit.
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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by umbrella001 on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 19:20

Teen titan...wish I could talk to the CM unfortunately since my spouse in considered DEC and is maxed on VAC benefits they took away his CM. They basically said well we tried everything to get you healthy and since you are DEC than you are no longer on the rehab plan so no case worker...I fought and fought and we were recently approved to have the re-education funds re-allocated to me so I'm not complaining but they've really left us hanging. The expectation is that if we need something then we are to call the 1-800 number....

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by bosn181 on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 09:58

i went through the same thing and when it went up from 75% to 90% sisip only pays the 75% had to fight with vac for a few months to get them to top up the other 15% they also had me apply for cppd and then clawed back the difference so instead of sisip having to pay all of the 75% cppd sends the money to sisip on my behalf so they don't have to pay as much but at the end of the day same amount goes in my account just payed between sisip and cppd saves sisip money at the end of the day is how i was to understand when i went through this process a few years ago

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by Teentitan on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 11:27

Your pension and SISIP will be reduced. As for ELB I "think" it too would be reduced. It looks like that is something for Manulife and VAC to work out.

All other benefits are not affected.

CPPD is confusing so I suggest you contact your CM. When I went thru the CPPD process it was after that I mentioned it to my CM for VAC paperwork. I was informed at that point I should have called to get assistance.
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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by umbrella001 on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 09:04

I just find the whole thing so confusing...I've been reading all the posts on here and it seems to be a big debate about whether applying for CPPD was the best choice. Currently we are doing okl and now I'm worried this has screwed it all up

receive pmt every month from

Pension
SISIP
ELB
PIA
PIA Sup
AA
(VIP yearly)

So what exactly is going to be impacted here? I mean CPPD max is only 1200 something so how can almost every other benefit get impacted?

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by By the Bay on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 02:17

Hi Umbrella001,

I get what your saying...
No your ELB top up would be the same amount. Sisip claws back your spouse's personal CPPD portion. They are the first payer and they represent the whole regarding ELB. Here is an example based on my past gross income and deductions.
(I am only referring to SISIP and VAC ELB...I do not know if other pensions claw back CPPD.)
*I did not serve long enough in the military to get a CF pension. So I am unsure of that protocol .
Here we go! Wait...hold on...I need a glass of wine for this one.
Ok ready😜
So my gross income was 3363.00 after getting medically released.
My CPPD was granted before my SISIP
( I waited nearly 12 months for SISIP....missing paperwork yada yada yada)

CPPD total amount was $1006.56
1st Child $75.63
2nd Child $54.29
(Yes CPPD was my only source of income for 12 months but we made it work)

So once I subtract the Children's amount that makes my personal income from CPPD $876.64

SISIP finally was granted and my gross pay was from them was $2523.00

SISIP clawed back my personal CPPD income of 876.64

SISIP AMOUNT                 $2523.00
CPPD claw back amount.   -$876.64
                                            =1646.36 😭

So that made my monthly gross income a whopping.....
SISIP      1646.36
CPPD.   + 876.64 + 129.62 (children's amount)
Total=      2652.62.....😭😭😭


When VAC ELB top up kicked in, they did not adjust the small amount I received because VAC said, "SISIP was the primary payer and any adjustment came from SISIP accounting office."
P.S This income example was from years ago when my children lived at home. I thought this example might serve you better because you mention that you have dependents.  Razz
PS....SISIP can not claw back your dependent amount...CPP stated that it is against policy that any institution such as insurances, debt collector, or court mandated-wage garnishing can make a claim against your dependent's portion of CPPD. Making your dependents money untouchable....


Hope this helps...
Cheers,
By the Bay


Last edited by By the Bay on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 02:38; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : A Woopsie)
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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by umbrella001 on Fri 15 Sep 2017, 19:25

Another thought I have is that won't the ELB from VAC go up to account for any loss on the total income from pre-CPPD and post-CPPD? I mean the ELB makes up the shortfall right now between SISIP and Pension so why wouldn't I give them the new numbers for CPPD, SISIP and Pension and have the ELB continue to make up the missed portion to the 90%?

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by umbrella001 on Fri 15 Sep 2017, 19:10

I had no idea that CPPD impacted the pension...Wish I had read this forum previously...My spouse was approved for CPPD today, they called to advise us but I've yet to get the letter notification.

Naively signed the form authorizing SISIP as the first payer ughhh

Really hoping that everything balances out in the end. We do have dependants so hopefully they don't try and keep the money from the back pay portion for that.

I figured the CPPD would be a fight and so now that its been approved it caught me off guard and I feel like I'm in the dark.

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by czerv on Fri 15 Sep 2017, 14:34

By the Bay and Teentitan, thank you so much for that.
My head is spinning, I guess sleeping pills do a number on me.

Cheers and thanks.

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by Teentitan on Fri 15 Sep 2017, 12:19

Go to your family doctor and have him/her fill out the form but attach all specialist reports to your CPPD application.

If the gov denies your application it should not interfere with your SISIP payment as long as you meet their disability requirements to continue your LTD.

SISIP is asking you to apply as it is the rules/regulation for LTD clients must apply for CPPD after X amount of years on LTD.

If the gov does approve your CPPD you need to remember that depending on the date you are approved for you will owe money to Manulife, and the CF Pension (if you are receiving one). So do not spend the check CPPD will send to you until you have paid them back.

One other thing SISIP will ask you to sign a form making them the first payee when you get your first CPPD payment. DO NOT sign it. Have them send you their calculations so you have a record for your taxes, if needed.

Also do not wait for the CF Pension office to get a hold of you if approved. You call them to get your file moving to be calculated what you owe them in back pay.
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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by By the Bay on Fri 15 Sep 2017, 12:16

Hi czerv,

Yes your psychologist can fill out the doctors portion.
If your denied for CPP-D, call Manulife and tell them you were denied. They will put this information in your file that you were denied and they won't bother you about applying again. You will still receive the same amount of money from Sisip after the denial. But let's just assume you were approved....SISIP will claw back your portion of the CPP-D. If you have children, Sisip can not claw back your dependents amount from your Sisip money. Hope this helps
Cheers,
By the Bay
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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by czerv on Fri 15 Sep 2017, 11:14

Just got a letter from Manulife... to apply for CPPD.
What happens if CPPD is not 'granted' by the gov?
Could a psychologist do the doctor's form?

Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

Post by LawnBoy77777 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 09:49

From my FB group. Can someone call CF Ombud? They don't listen to me.

God save me from fools...

Called CF Ombudsman on a nice simple issue:

SISIP/Manulife takes too much in clawbacks by violationg s. 24(b) for Reg F vets with CPPD & s. 44(b) for Res F veterans.

Agent insisted I had to appeal to Manulife/SISIP as they sent me a BS letter where they tied my request that they comply with the policy to my dispute with them ref contacting Sun Life! WTF?

I said this is a simple contractual issue, likely systemic, & the Sun Life issue is a RED HERRING. They must comply with the policy.

Nope. Appeal.

So I said, "WHY?" Appealing to the same agency that told you know is a waste of time. They have a duty to obey the contract & are using a distraction to delay my payment that they owe me.

In justice, no man is supposed to judge his' own cause.

Nope. Still ain't gonna help me.

I said at least look into the systemic issue, that has NOTHING to do with me. Then I hung up on him.

This BS must stop.

Can anyone in this boat call CF Ombudsman & register your protest?

1-888-828-3626

Oh, also told agent of Sun Life having 6 exceptions to offset vs SISIP having 1, an EQUITY issue.

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Re: CPPD/SISIP

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