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Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Guest on Sun 23 Aug 2015, 09:30

trooper I completely agree although saying SOME can see it as a pro buyout article is a little light as I don't see any other way it can be looked at .

however people do see things differently so its possible some may not see it that way.

I get that buds and fully understand .

bigrex as usual you are correct .

always question authority

propat

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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Guest on Sun 23 Aug 2015, 09:18

ok teen

not sure what you are reading but I did not say you insinuated that I was screaming from the clock towers .

your comment to my post was as follows.

by saying Don't shyte all over the work our Ombudsman has done in the last 5 years because he's not screaming from the Peace Tower END THE BUYOUT NOW!

my response was as follows

you said Don't shyte all over the work our Ombudsman has done in the last 5 years because he's not screaming from the Peace Tower END THE BUYOUT NOW!

first I don't expect any screaming from anywhere from any OVO just one quiet recommendation.

now a suppose you can look at that comment you made and say it means you think I will do that in the future kind of far fetched but sure .

just about everyone that reads that would think you are saying that is what I have been doing but again only kind of specific not exactly specific.

now this is just in case its the latter not the former . I really hate people putting words in my mouth I clearly didn't say so please read what I actually wrote not what you assume I wrote.

I in no way shape or form did I sh#@ on him for the work HE HAS DONE.



clearly im taking issue with the sh@# all over him for the work HE HAS DONE part not the peace tower part while also fairly pointing out you could have ment something else however unlikely .


teen in the arctical in question all the relevant info was in there and that's great but when he goes on to CLEARLY defend the buyout in this thing using the very same BS method fantino was using well I call BS . what can I say I call em as I see em.

so no teen what I said was not very insulting to his work and character .

however the article HE wrote IS.

I have shown that very article to some of those NVC vets ( my friends ) you speak of the more severely disabled ones I visit . AND YOU THINK IM BEING DISRESPECTFULL TO THEM !!!!!

buds you should have seen the letters they wrote to him in response to that article .

got the jist of two and actually read two before they were sent and you want to talk about anger over that article I mean WOW.

cant say all the swere words they contained but they did contain some non swere words such as puppet ,sell out , cowered and the list goes on.

point is yup they sure as heck did feel disrespected but it sure as FRACK wasn't by me.

always question authority

propat


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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Dannypaj on Sun 23 Aug 2015, 08:09

Here is something I wrote in regards to the lump sum on the ombudsman site and the answer that I received back in January 2015. It maybe a generic response IDK.

Danny J. said:
WHY IS IT SO HARD for the conservative government to overturn the NVC lump-sum payment back to a monthly pension? Please answer this question! Dear PM Harper & Veterans Ombudsman, My two sons and daughter will never serve in the Canadian Forces as it stands now. Thirty-nine years of combined service (My father and I) and it will remain Thirty-nine years. The poor treatment of Canadian veterans is why I will discourage my children from joining. Canada will not have my two sons and daughter fighting for a government whom does not support its troops. "Just do the right thing and fix what is broken in the charter and stop all these studies. I am a veteran and I don't feel supported.

January 31, 2015 6:53 AM
Office of the Veterans Ombudsman

Thanks for your comment Danny. I too feel that it is time for action to address the shortcomings of the NVC, and have consistently urged action on the most pressing issues, as outlined in my report (http://ombudsman-veterans.gc.ca/eng/reports/reports-reviews/improving-new-veterans-charter) and reiterated my recent blog (http://ombudsman-veterans.gc.ca/eng/blog/post/287). This is a priority for my office and I will share all updates as we have them.
February 3, 2015 4:29 PM
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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Guest on Sun 23 Aug 2015, 07:50

I would say good an valid points posted by all.....it is all about expressing the way you see things.
I think they are a few things that has become clear , the lump sum is an issue an will continue to be an issue until properly dealt with.
Rather the OVO is for or against the lump sum is to a degree irrelevant taken into account he is limited to recommendations only.
The OVO's post regarding the myth's about the lump sum can be interpreted by some as being pro lump sum , this regardless if he is not pro lump sum , just saying that the way in which it is written it is likely that some would view it to be a pro lump sum blog.
This not to disrespect the OVO , look at it in a way of how some could simply view it that way in turn responding to it in the way that they see it.
Like I have said many times before , I don't always agree with some points - or how some points are either viewed - or said by both the OVO an the MVA , but I will always try to respond respectfully being that I do respect both of them.
Having said that , I think it's important for Veterans to voice any issues they may have rather it be positive or negative , without this , it would be one sided , an this would not turn out to be fair for Veterans.

I would think an say that the biggest issue by far is the lump sum , it is the government of today that has chosen to not address this issue in the way Veterans want it to be address , so they have decided to work around it by announcing improvements within the NVC which does help in some ways , that would depend on each ones point of view , they have also taken these improvements to show that they are serious about the needs for Veterans , and they use these improvements to point out that there's more to the lump sum , than just the lump sum , but at the end of the day , the biggest problem failed to be addressed , they took the path of working around the biggest problem , instead of working the problem.
At least that's the way in which I see it , I'm certain others would disagree with my point of view , but hey , that's all good for me.

This is what I'm thinking now , just the simple fact of any one party coming forward an announcing they will convert the lump sum into a life long pension regardless of how difficult it may prove to achieve this , would in my mind override any - or all of the announcements made by this present government , but that's just me thinking , I'm not perfect an would acknowledge that I have been known to make inaccurate post from time to time.

BTW thanks for all your post as I love reading all of them.

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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by bigrex on Sun 23 Aug 2015, 01:44

Teen, I'm just saying that 70% of what you were making before 65, is NOT what was recommended. Yes, you get to keep your full PIA and PIAS, but it is deducted fully from that 70% amount. So, if I was to turn 65 right now, without the RISB, my PIA, PIAS and reduced CF pension, would equal around $2860/month, plus what ever I get for CPP and OAS. With the RISB in place, the maximum monthly benefit would be EELB ($4060) + PIA/PIAS (1660) - 30% = $4002. From that $4000, they then deduct PIA ($584), PIAS ($1074), CF pension ($1200), OAS ($564) leaving only $580 for CPP, before the RISB is zeroed out completely. So if I take those same amounts for CPP and OAS, and add them to the money I would have been getting without the RISB, the total is $4004, which for all intensive purposes, the same as what I will be entitled to WITH the RISB. So therefor, as a severely disabled veteran, I will not benefit from the RISB, because of the way the calculations were made. Even if they had kept the PIA/PIAS out of the calculations, like they do with the ELB, it wouldn't screw over Veterans as much as it will. But I guess that was the objective, now wasn't it?
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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Teentitan on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 23:33

propat I was not insinuating that you were screaming from the Peace Tower it was a general statement that most vets think that's what he should do. And most vets are shyting all over his work.

OK you did not put words in his mouth but this comment by you.... 1. like I said if he knows the buyout is wrong and wants to keep his job he should just shut his mouth about it not go out and support it. is very insulting to his work and character.

I'll say it again he does not like the buyout (he has said it to me) but if he doesn't address it the reports go nowhere and are totally ignored. If he doesn't address the buyout when trying to inform veterans that there is more to the NVC then the buyout then he is not doing his job as the Ombudsman.

So for you to tell him to shut his mouth you are in essence telling him not to do his job. You don't have to like what he says but if you don't respect the work he does (and how he expresses it) for NVC vets then that is very disrespectful to him and the NVC vets.

Rex you may not like the RISB but 70% is better then nothing and I have been told that PIA and PIAS will not be changed as it is a lifelong benefit. I will confirm this but I am repeating what I was told.

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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Guest on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 23:09

WOW yaaa thought I explained that quite clearly . if ill say that again IF IF IF .

by saying Don't shyte all over the work our Ombudsman has done in the last 5 years because he's not screaming from the Peace Tower END THE BUYOUT NOW!

you meant you believe I have then that is completely false as I have not!!!!!

2. When you make a statement like this;

When exactly did he say this?

1. like I said if he knows the buyout is wrong and wants to keep his job he should just shut his mouth about it not go out and support it.

that is completely false I did not say he said that I I I and ill stress this again I said that. I did not in any fracking way shape or form say he said that .

I put no words in his mouth why would you put words in mine .

I know for a fact that the benefits he used for his post pretty much the same ones used by fantino ARE available to PA recipients because I am a PA recipient and I have those benefits , not max of course , as that is a rarity contrary what some of these examples will try and lead you to believe.

so yes the NVC is all about the buyout as its the only substantial difference in benefits and rehab between the NVC recipients and the PA recipients.

always question authority

propat

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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by bigrex on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 23:00

Teen, I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to take credit for helping create the RISB, once the actual numbers are crunched. The recommendations by the OVO and the ACVA, were to increase and extend ELB for life, NOT replace it with a different benefit, that may actually reduce the money being received post 65, because it deducts 100% the PIA and PIAS, while only using 70% of it to calculate your max benefit.
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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Teentitan on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 22:02

Well I don't know 'what words' I put in your mouth propat but you seem to have no problem putting words in Guy's mouth.

When exactly did he say this?

1. like I said if he knows the buyout is wrong and wants to keep his job he should just shut his mouth about it not go out and support it.

He knows it's wrong. He looked at Stograns words and report that after 5 years a buyout runs out but the PA keeps going. Zero reaction or care. So he went down a new path and made improvements to the NVC. Not perfect improvements but improvements none the less.

So to not 'repeat' history he takes the time to do Myth Busting blogs that the NVC is not just about the buyout. Rather a buyout 'buys you in' to an array of other financial benefits and rehab. Something the PA did and does not do.

Part of your signature block propat is 'always question authority'. Well why can't we question what each other writes?

The buyout is wrong...we all know it. But like I said it will take a political party to introduce a different veterans act.

Until that happens I look at Guy and his office staff's attempt to improve the NVC and educate veterans about all the benefits they are entitled to. A job that only can be done by the mandate set by VAC.
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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Guest on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 20:38

teen

1. like I said if he knows the buyout is wrong and wants to keep his job he should just shut his mouth about it not go out and support it.

2. I know how the GOC works teen and I sure as know its a slow proses at best the problem is will to start the proses .if it takes 10 years it takes ten years but if you take 20 years before you even start the presses it takes 30. the government we have now had fracking near ten years and haven't even shown a glimmer that they will start the proses. THERE TIME IS UP!!!!

3. you said Don't shyte all over the work our Ombudsman has done in the last 5 years because he's not screaming from the Peace Tower END THE BUYOUT NOW!

first I don't expect any screaming from anywhere from any OVO just one quiet recommendation.

now a suppose you can look at that comment you made and say it means you think I will do that in the future kind of far fetched but sure .

just about everyone that reads that would think you are saying that is what I have been doing but again only kind of specific not exactly specific.

now this is just in case its the latter not the former . I really hate people putting words in my mouth I clearly didn't say so please read what I actually wrote not what you assume I wrote.

I in no way shape or form did I sh#@ on him for the work HE HAS DONE.

as for the one glaring thing he hasn't even tried to do well that's a different matter .

and I hate to tell ya this but anyone whose job is to protect disabled vets and supports the buyout will get the around the same amount of respect from me as he does regardless of there party colors.

always question authority

propat




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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Guest on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 19:41

oh teen I fully understand what "working within the mandate means?" but teen are you saying that when he made the recommendation he did to change the NVC adding one more recommendation to change the NVC from the NVC buyout to an NVC monthly pension is outside his mandate when the others are not????????????

always question authority

propat

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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Guest on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 19:33

thanks trooper was away for a bit . your right of course seems there are mixed feelings over the issue . the GOC , MVA , OVO and even the legion to a point don't really seem to have much of a problem with it. PA guys seem to be mixed . the vast majority of disabled NVC vets have an overwhelming HATRED of it .

but it sure seems to me the politicians and political appointees seem to be getting there convoluted opinions' of this unholy fracking buyout out there better than the people that it ACTUALLY effects . especially when an an election is coming up.

yup not that I dislike these political appointees I actually believe they are decent people but every job or position I ever had I made it my mission to be the very best that have ever done that job and ALMOAST without exception I succeeded . pride in ones self ... pride in ones job. the biggest part of these guys jobs is to protect disabled vets . in that THEY HAVE FAILD MISARABLY !!!!

I HAVE NO TIME OR RESPECT FOR THAT!!!!

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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Teentitan on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 19:16

propat do you understand what "working withing the mandate means?"

He can only work with what is in front of him and unfortunately the NVC is in front of him.

So he has to work it to get the max for vets under the NVC.  Hence the "actuarial" on the NVC post 65.  That was his work.  That's what led to the RISB the widow's RISB and making the reserves equivalent to reg forces.  He saw the flaws with what was in front of him and researched it....sent it out to a 3rd party to verify his research....then he wrote the report...then the GoC fixed the flaw in the NVC.

HISTORY LESSON:

When the NVC was first rolled out 99.9% of veteran advocates asked "Where's the actuarial to prove the NVC is equivalent to the PA?"

The Ontario Command of the Legion asked it on their website and within 24 hours they were ordered by Dominion Command to remove it.

Don't you think the first thing Stogran should have done was do an actuarial on the NVC post 65?????  NO HE DIDN'T.  He failed the veterans by NOT doing his job properly.  You can't yell at the bureaucratic machine you have to fight it with what makes them work......reports....paperwork.....committee meetings.

Until it was thrown in VAC, the Minister, all Members of Parliament faces that post 65 was the financial death knell for veterans they did nothing.  That includes ALL MP's of every frickn' party.

He knows the buyout is wrong but he can't because it's not in his mandate, get rid of it.

The only way our Ombudsman can say END THE BUYOUT NOW is to be an independent Ombudsman with power to conduct carte blanche investigations to prove the buyout is wrong.

Do you understand what has to happen to END THE BUYOUT NOW?

A new bill has to be written, presented on the floor of the HoC, sent to the Senate, voted on the floor of the HoC to make it an Act.

Guy knows it....Harper knows it...Mulcair knows it....Trudeau knows it...May knows it!  BUT do they have the guts to do it???  HELL NO!!!!

Don't shyte all over the work our Ombudsman has done in the last 5 years because he's not screaming from the Peace Tower END THE BUYOUT NOW!

His work has paid off for NVC VETS.  Not all vets but at least the NVC vets are going to live a little easier.

Am I happy with all the work he's done?  NO.  I feel there is still a lot of work left to do but OUR OMBUDSMAN is caught in a quagmire.  

To make substantial changes to the NVC takes years, not days or months, YEARS!!  That's the way the beaucracy works.  It moves as fast as a snail.  Slow and leaves a trail of snot behind it that slows down it's predators.

A snap of the fingers that Mulcair, Trudeau and May thinks it takes to change the NVC is nothing but bullshyte coming out of their mouths.  And the poor basterd that has to deal with this bullshyte is our Ombudsman....whoever he or she may be at the time because they have to work within the mandate of the NVC.

If the Ombudamsn goes off the track and openly fights against the party about the NVC the same thing will happen to them as what happened to Stogran....you are relieved of your duty.

Remember the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

Parent saw Stogran bark at the bosses and the OVO was not taken seriously.  So he fought them with reports and now NVC vets have some financial security post 65.
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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Riddick on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 19:10

I can't be too hard on the guy....... I am no politician but I cannot in all good conscience condemn him....... Was it him who started the "Town Hall" going from city to city....meeting vets, talking, educating, updating and going to bat for many of them/us? All his reports appear to me, that he sticks up for us......But what power does he have to actually change anything....his recommendations are done very diplomatically........ meaning one catches more flies with sugar than vinegar. His agenda appears to be on the up and up. Things are not changing as fast as we like, but his position is a huge influence. He watches his tongue.......and says "things are moving at a snails pace", he outright called many of VRAB decision "unfair". I do not know what goes on behind closed doors, but the fact that he is back in........we can say.......we know him and what he is like, and as far as I am concerned.....there can be a lot worse.

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Re: Vets ombudsman reappointed by Tories

Post by Guest on Sat 22 Aug 2015, 19:04

Welcome back there propat , I personally have a lot of respect for both the OVO an the MVA , both worked very hard for Veterans , but like I have always said there's some points that both make I disagree with , always respectfully of course.
It's one of those things where in the case of the lump sum it's very difficult to hold back frustration , but the thing is that the lump sum is unfair compared to the old act regardless of deflections from others.
And I think they can tweak things every which way around but at the end of the day until someone stands up an changes the lump sum into a lifelong pension , the fight to change will never end.
So I guess time is in order , we have gotten full proof that the Conservatives will not change the lump sum in to the way Veterans want it to be , so it can turn out to be a long battle , with this present government anyway.
So try not to get to upset about it , your not alone in your way of thinking , an by the looks of things there not alone in there way of thinking.
Disable Veterans who find themselves at a disadvantage with respect to the lump sum are the ones that are hurting as they know that if it was to be changed to a life long it would put them in a more equal position that was available from the old act.
Like you said end the buyout , but this government will not do it , so try an have a little patience in understanding that your not alone and the fight will continue until it is changed.

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