Canadian Soldiers Assistance Team (CSAT) Forum

Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Rags on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 15:44

I have read Louise Richards testimony at the Ottawa standing committee and remember reading it before. Of note her intro comments are very good right up to the point she speaks on DU. There is virtually nothing accurate or correct about what she said about DU. I was shocked by the careless use of anti nerve agent. I have heard these stories before and always shake my head at the incompetence of command. It is hard to believe a trained NBCW/D trained person would direct that use. Even harder to believe med staff took it with their base drug knowledge. The key to Gulf War Syndrome is her presentation right up to the DU part.
I do know that in the planning the subject of anti nerve and pre Nuc drugs came up and the protocol to use it was not what occurred not by command but by individual local leaders who panicked. I know of several people who refused one of which was courts martialed for a specific refusal. I never took it and counselled my leadership not to use it till the right moment. We never used it and most Army units did not probably because they had trained NBCW/D in there unit command structure who refused to order its use. You only take it when you know nerve has been released or nuc is in your area and you only them continuously when you have been exposed for absolute certainty. Id suspect there were also some panic artists who will never admit they took an atropine injection but Im willing to bet some did. That alone will cause many issues for the body......similar to gulf war syndrome. Any chemists in the crowd? combine, atropine, bromide pills, Iodin pills and then deet with more insecticides and mix in methlequin. There is the answer to GWS not DU.
Again I will qualify that cause if you by chance was at a strike site when it occurred and it was an enriched round....then and only then will there be issues for you.  

Rags

Rags
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 791
Location : Adrift
Registration date : 2013-01-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 14:58

Sparrow wrote:Thanks wild thing Very Happy Is it Justin Bieber?
yep enjoy!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Rifleman on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 14:26

Yep REFLUX

Rifleman
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 613
Location : facebook
Registration date : 2013-05-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 14:23

Hey Rifleman, it's a pensionable thing. LOL

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Rifleman on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 14:19

I'm going to vomit Justin b

Rifleman
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 613
Location : facebook
Registration date : 2013-05-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 14:11

Thanks wild thing Very Happy Is it Justin Bieber?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 14:02

At a girl, were here for you. It's going to make me gag but i will put a song on for you. lol

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 13:54

Thank you wild thing ~ one day at a time.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 13:41

WOW sorry Sparrow. wish all soldiers had to worry about was being concust like multi million dollar hockey players that work 15 minutes every third night and get hundreds of hours of media attention a year. There is something wrong with this country and it's priority's. Why do they rate a veteran down there at the level of some one who has collected welfare all his life. pisses me off big time.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 11:50

Thank you Teen, I will certainly follow up with that recommendation with the Oncologist and Family Doc. Not likely to be covered by DVA as spouse is not pensioned for the conditions but that won't hinder getting the injection in my view.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Teentitan on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 10:58

Sparrow there is an injection to boost a person's white blood cell count. It is used for cancer patients to lessen the time between chemo sessions.

It is pricey but VAC will pay for it if it is recommended by an oncologist to help his condition. Just call VAC and ask for the Blue Cross center and they will explain what needs to be done.
avatar
Teentitan
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 3293
Location : ontario
Registration date : 2008-09-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 09:49

There is another perspective to be considered for soldiers. My husband was a vehicle tech for 20 years and was exposed daily to carcinogens, toxins, solvents, fumes, lead and the list goes on, not to mention the immunization regime he was given. While in his 17th year in the military post his tour to Bosnia,  it was noted that his white blood cell (neutrophils) were non existent which caused an autoimmune scenario and continues to current day. He has since been diagnosed with idiopathic severe neutropenia and also cyclic lymphoma. The Oncologist is monitoring the situation to determine when the lymphoma turns to cancer. It goes without saying that the VRAB have denied that this is caused by military service but what I can say is this, my spouse had an independent lab in the USA do a toxic screening test after he was med released and the screening came back that within his body he has 90-99% range of dozens of chemical toxins and carcinogens that  he could only have been exposed to while in the military.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 05:03

Rag's being artillery you were exposed to toxic crap every time you entered the impact area, picked up a piece of metal, looked in a blown out tank or picked a straw berry on the gun position in Gagetown and ate it fished on the ranges hunted on the ranges which was legally allowed in my service days there, no warning sign's saying don't eat berry's dont eat fish don't eat game animals may contain agent orange, white or purple or other toxic chemicals. As a matter of fact there was no signs period. that crap will be there for ever i suffer from neuropathy some woman or man is having it enter their system right now in gagetown and they don't even know it.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Teentitan on Thu 21 Jan 2016, 03:29

Good info Rags. Are you familiar with Terry Riordon? He was one of the few Canadians on the ground in GF1 and around a lot of bombing. I believe he was an intelligence officer.

Anyway he became very sick, his eye color changed and DND refused to admit he was exposed to DP. But when he passed he was double bagged in contamination bags when his wife picked him up.

She was in contact with a research scientist in England or the US and she gave her husbands body to them to be tested. His DP reading from his bone marrow was way over the top and that was what prompted the DND to do the urine test I mentioned above as Mrs. Riordon made it very public.

I know that we have a level of DP in our bodies and it is normal and I believe in your training and expertise. But it was Mrs. Riordon's efforts for her husband that planted the seed in me to start advocating back in 2006/7.

It always boil's down to the toxic stew we are always exposed to on deployment and a small cluster gets an illness and it takes years to fight it. Like Agent Orange and a long fight to have the bureaucrats believe the science that military members have a higher chance of getting MS then Joe/Jane Canadian.

One of those mysteries we only get the answer to up at the pearly gate I guess.
avatar
Teentitan
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 3293
Location : ontario
Registration date : 2008-09-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Rags on Wed 20 Jan 2016, 23:03

Teen, First of all I sure feel for ya would not want anyone to have that result. And as a GF1 guy also part of planning the conflict in the HQ in Germany then to Div RECCE with US but like most CF and most any army never got in action it was a pilot war. I know from where you come and I thankyou for your service.

  I was only commenting on the Gulf War 1 not YUGO. Since we did not participate in the ground combat other then 7 or 8 on loan officers to foreign forces we did not have contact with the DP projectile sites where contamination could occur. Our forces were way way away from those impact sites. DP does not have a down wind hazard beyond kill radius of round x 10 give or take. The nature of DP is its heavy thus it falls fast and does not float or move with wind of any significance.
 The Air campaign in Yugo complicates the issue as in Yugo the presents of Canadian Forces at the site of DP round impacts is rare but it did occur. Issue becomes later on after the war when peace forces arrived IFOR SFOR that we get CF members interacting with old bomb sites. But again those sites are all out of bounds and months to years old and to be there would be a breach thus self inflicted but I digress....during the war some, all thought rare, CF members where at impact sites. Those people are well known to a small community of vets who participated in that part of the war. And I stress that DP is on its own not an issue to health as its depleted. The sticky issue is that some of those rounds where actually not DP they were actually enriched.....That changes everything! NATO has although years later admitted that fact but claim it was on a rare incident or two if at all....that part of the story Id say is BS propaganda by NATO cause they dont want to admit they used enriched rounds.

Id suggest that there is no documented fact that anyone from any force has died of DP....ya cant eat or inhale enough to kill yourself or become ill during the limited exposure of a distance from a bomb site detonation. You literally have to be at the site within the kill radius and it has to be one of the "enriched" ones not a DP round. The CF people who have been that close are all known and non of them is sick.....yet.  Some of the key cases in argument against your position are of Gulf War 1 soldiers who actually have the projectile fragments in them after there vehicles were hit by friendly fire. Some of the key proof the medical system uses for DP having no measured effect is these cases who have not become ill. Now that said those GF1 cases may not have been the "enriched" projectiles, I dont know. To be hit with a "enriched" projectile would have vastly different medical effects.
  Now for Yugo there was no friendly fire issues with DP rounds so the only way a soldier could come in contact with DP would be to be at the bomb site.....few as I said were at the bomb site and most in that business know who they are. And as I said that had to be a DP site that was actually not DP but "enriched".

Simple test .....test for proper enriched Isotopes. The CF does not do a DP test that looks for the proper Isotope. You have to pay for that one by yourself.  
Its simple for me when someone asks my view:
First I ask where you at a bomb detonation site? must be detonation there are no effects from sealed in projectile before detonation.
If yes then: during detonation? or after and if after how long after.
I need a grid and date because it can be cross checked with actual target locations and the date gives the type of projectile used.
The most common way to get poisoned and with the worst results is to inhale it. So next question did you inhale the cloud of smoke from detonation or dust stirred up from detonation or disturbing the site after the fact.
If you inhaled it......what did it taste like feel like effects.
Depending on the projectile and date and answers one can then make assumptions whether it was DP or enriched. If DP its no issue. If enriched test for specific isotope. No isotope no negative effects.

And as a side note just a small amount of the isotope is dismissed by the medical community but there wrong. You then you have to apply the nuc math and reverse calculate the half life backwards to date of exposure from date of testing. With that number you now have a proper measure of the exposure and can better predict the effects of the poisoning.

This was all rather quick response it needs a longer deeper explanation but its the concept in a nut shell. I never say never and like you I dont believe what they tell me. It took almost 7 years to prove they used "Enriched" they denied it for 3 more years even after it was proven. That my friend is a huge huge war crime and they wont admit that. But as a Nuc weapon expert and nuc effects expert a weapons and munitions guy DP and enriched I have a good understanding of the issue. I would look elsewhere for reason for illness. As you said we got exposed to so much toxic shit the answer is out there just not DP.

Rags    

I am one of the few that was exposed to DP and Enriched.

Edit in : one last thing if someone can get me proof of types of rounds at the fire at ammo compound that the US had and our forces in a RCR company and some engineer sqd that helped put fire out and rescue some US soldiers......that group may have been exposed. If you were there then you need to get me photos or eye witness confirmation of rounds stored there. If enriched those people will have issues.

Rags
CSAT Member

Number of posts : 791
Location : Adrift
Registration date : 2013-01-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Trudeau's bombing carries on Canada's 25-year war against Iraq

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum