Increased Disability Award & Retro

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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by Ex Member on Thu 31 Mar 2016, 22:38

There's always a reason!

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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by Ex Member on Tue 05 Apr 2016, 10:00

They're waiting till 2017 because they really don't have the money. Do you really think any entity is there in place for the Veterans or people of Canada? Please, there's always a motive. Trust no one.

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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by Guest on Tue 05 Apr 2016, 11:13

ha ha yup but what .

the lawsuit with a poorly framed case with low reaching arguments .

should it have been framed in the form of an equality case ie; equal to prior vets and RCMP not civies ?

should the arguments have been based on the difference between buyout vs PA pension with a goal to return the PA pension to replace the buyout?

look at their arguments.

can you see moral obligation wording eliminating one ?

can you see the changes to PIA including the name minimising one ?

can ya see the increase to the buyout eliminating the dumbest one of all?

can this be the smartest and cheapest way to step on the throat of the lawsuit itself before they even spend another day in court ?

yup their is always a motive.

always question authority.

propat




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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by RCN-Retired on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 05:18

I heard what they thought about was taking the lump sum and dividing it into a number of years and rather then get a lump sum and blow it on wine, women and song that so many have been accused of they will pay monthly, no interest just the lump sum paid out in monthly instalments. Thus their going back to the drawing board.
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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by bigrex on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 08:43

Dividing the lump sum into monthly installments, and still have it be for life, is logistically impossible. So I do not think that was ever on the table, but when you leave people in the dark, they tend to create rumours, in an attempt to fill in the blanks. The problem lies in that the rumours are often worse than what is really happening.
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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by VRI on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 17:04

I searched forever for exactly this topic, so figured I'd join the discussion.

My big concern is how are they going to come up with the top up amount? Is inflation included or not? This thread seems to suggest that the top up is a fairly simple one (i.e. what your % is now, subtract what you've been paid, and bobs your uncle) but I'm wondering, where is that idea coming from? Is there anythhing to support it?

My case: Pensioned in 2008 @ 100%, I got around $260,000. So according to this thread, I should get $100,000, give or take ($360,000-$260,000).

That would be great, but how sure are we that that's the way they're going to look at it? The wording in the bill is tricky with legalese, but it appears to NOT be the case. In other words, inflation may not be taken into account. From the bill:

"21 (1) The Minister must pay to a member or a veteran who received, in whole or in part, a disability award under section 45, 47 or 48 of the Act before April 1, 2017, and who is alive on April 1, 2017, an amount determined in accordance with the formula
A − B
where

A
is the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the memberís or veteranís extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced ó for every calendar year from2016 until the year in which the disability award was received ó by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted; and

B
is the amount of the disability award that was payable to the member or the veteran under subsection 52(1) of the Act."

so this is a mouthful, but to me, it appears that inflation is not added to the bill. Specifically, this part:

"is the amount set out in column 3 of Schedule 3 to the Act, as that Schedule read on April 1, 2017, that corresponds to the memberís or veteranís extent of disability, as set out in column 2, for which the disability award was received, reduced ó for every calendar year from2016 until the year in which the disability award was received ó by a percentage calculated in accordance with the method of calculating the percentages by which the amounts set out in Schedule 3 to the Act are periodically adjusted" (emphasis mine)

So for my situation, I'm reading it that they take the number that corresponds to your % in the new tables. For me, that will mean that I'll start with $360,000. But then it is reduced "by a percentage calculated in accordance with the percentages by which the amounts are periodically adjusted." To me, this means that they start with your overall amount, and then reduce by the same inflation formula that they INCREASE it every year.

So if THAT'S the case, the new formula would be to take what you already got, and add 16.1% (the increase from $310,000 to $360,000). The other raise that have happened every year won't be included in the formula.

I hope I'm reading this wrong. Because in a hypothetical situation between me and another vet who got their award in 2015, the amounts paid would look like this:

Me - 100% @ $260,000 (2008)
Pte Bloggins - 100% @ $310,000 (2015)

And then our top up would be:

Me - $43,000 ($260,000 + 16.1%)
Bloggins - $50,000 ($310,000 + 16.1%)

Obviously, this seems unfair. Both Bloggins and myself are just as disabled (administratively, at least) except Bloggins has been paid $360,000, and I've only been paid $303,000.

This is also supported by the fact that we don't recieve yearly inflation adjusted top ups (which seems like bullshit to me. Every year, every vet should get an inflation top up to keep all vets in line with each other). After all, even if we pretend this new top up award didn't happen, I still will have recieved about $50,000 less then a vet with the same injuries did in 2015, and all because I had the bad luck to be blown up in 2007 instead of a few years later. If the government didn't make annual top up payments to ensure all vets were treated equally, I'm not sure why they would start now.

Of course, the counter argument is that if the government is saying that the award is retroative, that means the EFFECTIVE DATE is retroactive. And one could argue that if we had been paid on that date (in my case, 2008) we could/would have put it into investments where it would be worth even more then the inflation value today. It hasn't been hard to beat 1.5%/year, the markets been in an 8 year bull run.

So needless to say, I'm pretty confused. Anyone have any more clarity on this?


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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by Guest on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 17:28

VRI in BILL C21 they refer to using the formula as per policy , what they don't do is provide the formula itself for calculations.

I have searched for this policy formula with no success.

The Formula you posted is based on what we think will be used in their calculations , but it is only concrete if we can view the calculation policy.

It would be a lot easier to confirm this , if they were to provide the formula for us to see.

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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by johnny211 on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 18:24

VRI - Thank you for that, but I just lost a few puzzle pieces out of my ptsd brain trying to make any sense of this. I will have to read it over a few times..lol. VVV...
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VAC Disability Award Rate Table 2016 ....... for New Veterans Charter ....... and Retro figures from 2006 - 2017 ???

Post by Recon031 on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 21:06

% †..........Amount Awarded 2006................. Amount Awarded 2016 .................. Increase 15% to 2017 ....................
1....................$654.49........................................$ † †870.38 .......................................$ †1000.94 † †
2....................$1308.97......................................$ †1740.72........................................$ †2001.83
3....................$1963.48..............................l.......$ †2611.12........................................$ †3002.65
4....................$2617.96......................................$ †3481.47........................................$ †4003.69
5....................$12,500.00...................................$ †15,518.93.....................................$ †17,846.77
10..................$25,000.00...................................$ †31,037.86......................................$ †35,693.54 †
15..................$37,500.00...................................$ †46,556.79......................................$ †53,539.79
20..................$50,000.00...................................$ †62,075.72......................................$ †71,387.07
25..................$62,500.00...................................$ †77,594.65......................................$ †89,233.85
30..................$75,000.00...................................$ †93,113.58......................................$ †107,080.62
35..................$87,500.00...................................$ †108,632.51....................................$ †124,927.39
40..................$100,000.00.................................$ †124,151.44.....................................$ †142,774.16
45..................$112,500.00.................................$ †139,670.37.....................................$ †160,620.93
50..................$125,000.00.................................$ †155,189.30.....................................$ †178,467.70
55..................$137,500.00.................................$ †170,708.22.....................................$ †196,314.45
60..................$150,000.00.................................$ †186,227.15.....................................$ †214,161.22
65..................$162,500.00.................................$ †201,746.08.....................................$ †232,007.99
70..................$175,000.00.................................$ †217,265.01.....................................$ †249,854.76
75..................$187,500.00.................................$ †232,783.94.....................................$ †267,701.53
80..................$200,000.00.................................$ †248,302.87.....................................$ †285,548.30
85..................$212,500.00.................................$ †263,821.80.....................................$ †303,395.07
90..................$225,000.00.................................$ †279,340.73.....................................$ †321,241.84
95..................$237,500.00.................................$ †294,859.66.....................................$ †339,088.61
100................$ 250,000.00................................$ †310,378.59.....................................$ †360,000.00

If you see something I should Change ....... please let me know .


For any changes required , please message me or leave it on the post ...... these numbers show a 15% increase from 2016 - 2017
The % of change from ...... 2006 - 2017 †will be roughly 30% ? ..... i'll confirm after I get the figures Posted for 2006

I'm not sure if VAC will give a 30 % increase to the Troops , OR , to my assumption , they will pay you the DIFFERENCE from DATE of APPROVAL to 2017 .

For Country
Retired Army MasterSniper
Dave Fitzpatrick
Family of .......7........ Get er' Done Bye's !


Last edited by Recon031 on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 13:02; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by Guest on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 21:18

ya VRI just some CYA wording that's all buds .

they have no idea when every individuals checks will be mailed , the first one will not go out april 2nd and they all will not go out the same day if I know the GOC at all , now they are also most of all thinking about the math on appeals and retro on them .

here is the thing they are NOT going to pay you COLA FROM 2016 till you receive your retro AND the increase as well .

you will ONLY get the increase . if you receive COLA IN 2017 or 2018 on your initial buyout before you get your retro they will subtract THAT COLA from your increase .

however not a big deal as they will be applying the COLA on a larger amount .

not very good at explaining things maybe big rex can do a better job .

hope this helps .

cant figure out who this is but I would probably know you .

I am SLICK .

im in the book if ya want to talk about this call me or ya can PM me .

propat

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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by Guest on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 22:05

ya buds from looking at the legislation EVERYONE who got a buyout prior to april 1st 2017 will be brought up to that amount . they will also receive COLA on there buyout going forward on THAT amount not your previous amount .

propat



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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by Ex Member on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 22:44

Question? Why increase the lump sum award if there is truth to the promise that a return to life long pensions is coming?

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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by Guest on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 23:47

well buds im guessing either the lifetime pension they are going to concoct will be some table with a bunch of math to do from that table subtract this that and the other thing and when all is said and done guys will be forced to take the buyout anyway because the lifelong pension will be frack all any way.

or they will go with the PA pension as the option and are hoping some will take the buyout .

from what im hearing from the MVA im guessing its more likely the former NOT the latter.

guys taking the pension will not get the 50.000 bonus check so they gotta hang that carrot .

plus one of the arguments in the lawsuit was that we are getting less in a buyout than civies are entitled to . this eliminates that argument before the have to spend so much as another second in court .

propat

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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by 1993firebird on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 08:44

So I am looking at more money , $18,000 approximately plus COLA.

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Re: Increased Disability Award & Retro

Post by Guest on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 09:37

firebird you will only start getting COLA after april 1st 2017 .

propat

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