SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by bigrex on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 00:36

Lawnboy, that is when you tell SISIP to recalculate your benefits for those months based on the new reduced amounts for your CF pension. Ultimately, even with having to pay back SISIP and the CF pension, your SISIP monthly benefit should not fall below the 75% mark, even with all the deductions.

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by LawnBoy77777 on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 07:39

bigrex, not that simple. SISIP takes my CPPD despite Sun Life taking it. They know it is not fair but do it anyway. I even found another vet in the same boat being treated different. He gets SISIP + Sunn Life like me + CPPD but he only loses the value of CPPD, not twice the value (double deduction, Gasior v Bayes; Gignac). That is my ace up my sleeve for my suits. They are being stupid & not coordinating the clawback, in my case. In Nelson's case, Manulife takes the full value of the CPPD & Sun Life exercised discretion & did not mechanically follow the alleged contractual right to take it.

I read a case like that, Houle SCC, on abuse of contractual rights.

What you said reminds me of what Sun Life did. They increased their benefit when my Public Service pension went down BUT I discovered a problem:

My PS pension is supposedly: Lifetime pension + CPP Bridging = $1268 + $502 = $1,780.

However, Sun Life took $1,780 off in 2012 when I was awarded my PS pension & then took $1,268 off in 2014 whe CPPD was awarded.

I pointed out that is crazy.

If the PS pension is $1,268 in 2014, it was $1,268 in 2012. They took too much out from 2012 onwards. They cannot change their position. That is ESTOPPEL, in law. They are stuck with their position.

That is a fallback position. My main position is that CPPD is not allowed to be set off.

I can prove that categorically.

Have SISIP or VAC send a bill to CPPD after sending us the full amount of our benefit.

1. CPPD pays them and it makes no difference;

2. CPPD refuses & we have our answer if they can take something indirectly, through the back door, when the front door is locked by CPP Act s. 65(1) & CPP Act s. 65(1.1) & FAA s. 21 & FAA s. 67.

Even if they did the direct billing & got paid, I would only lose my CPPD value ONCE! After the early bird gets that worm, the next in line is told, "Sorry, someone else got there first. We have no money to send you."

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by bigrex on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 13:40

The thing is lawnboy, SISIP is contracted to pay you 75% of your pre-release pay, minus other sources of income.

So if before getting CPP(D), your monthly SISIP was $3000, and deducted $1500 for your CF pension. It would still leave you with a total of $3000/mo.

So now you are awarded CPP(D) of $1000 for that month and you had to pay back $300 to the Cf pension, and $1000 to SISIP, leaving you with a total of $500 for SISIP, 1200 for your CF pension, and $1000 for CPP, leaving you with only a gross total of $2700.

When In actuality , it should be recalculated so $3000, minus the reduced CF pension of $1200, and the $1000 for CPP(D), would still leave you with the full $3000 per month
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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by Panserbjørn on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 13:54

This makes me somewhat happy I am not getting a pension and SISIP. I shudder at the thought of having to deal with SISIP and CPP(D).

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by LawnBoy77777 on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 15:16

No, SISIP pays me a deemed $2000 per month. They thenn take off CPPD's value of $1,000 and my CF pension of $220. I currently get $909 per month.

Sun Life takes $1,000 off for my CPPD too. So I lose $2000 for getting $1000. No one would agree to that. That is crazy. I'm better off without CPPD. Then I would get $5300 per month. Now I get $4150.

Here is an analysis I did just then for a BC vet having trouble with VAC's ELB which cut her off. She is 102% disabled:

While chatting with BC vet having trouble obtaining Permanent Impairment Allowance Supplement to go with her grade 3 PIA, I was struck by several facts:

1. SISIP's own occupation definition of disability is any disability that stops you from making 100% of your salary at the time you were released medically;

A. They used the wrong definition of disability, "any occupation" from 1969-1999, a major act of NEGLIGENCE! Probably GROSS NEGLIGENCE;

B. In 1999, when they fixed this, they made SISIP LTD automatic on medical release. A very common sense decision as the CF member is certainly unable to do their own trade if they were released as the CF Medical Officers certified this in law (Queen's Regulations & Orders 15.01). They failed, however, to amend the policy & it still contains the old definition;

C. The policy also fails to define what the "any occupation" definition of disability. VAC has established Earnings capacity Loss Benefit (ELB) as a "mirror" of SISIP. To get ELB to age 65, you must be Totally & Permanently Incapacitated (TPI). That designation also triggers 2 payments:

(i) Permanent Impairment Allowance (PIA) for the loss of promotion & seniority. I am of the opinion that EVERYONE medically released must get this based on the common sense proposition that EVERY medical release will cause TOTAL loss of promotion & seniority. How can you garner seniority & promotions in rank when you have been fred for becoming disabled? You are no longer there! As this is a Capital payment, you should not get taxed & you can make this in addition to working. A new job would have NOTHING to do with your old job so the loss of promotions & seniority continue for LIFE! We know PIA is lifetime;

(ii) Permanent Impairment Allowance Supplement, introduced in 2010, adds an additional set amount if the TPI designation causes you to be unable to work! An insane proposition. It actually states that you have to be unable to perform at a job that is 66.67% of your salary on release. That means it is easy to prove. Look at your employment record & see if you made 67% of what you used to make. Income, not SISIP or ELB. This means that you get that if you work! Walter Callaghan this is interesting stuff. For life too, a Capital (tax free, damages) payment;

2. So it seems that the SISIP LTD program dovetails into ELB. This has the following ramifications:

A. Approval to 65 on either is approved on the other;

B. Approval for ELB following SISIP means that ELB starts at the "any occupation" stage & must continue to age 65 with PIA & PIAS adding capital payment.

C. This makes an application for PIA/PIAS totally irrelevant as I stated before, medical release or Total Disability triggers those;

D. Think of the savings in administrative costs as VAC can reassign those workers now wasting the taxpayers' money adjudicating case without reason;

E. There is an interesting aspect though, as SISIP LTD must continue to age 65 if ELB is approved as SISIP = ELB & ELB approved to age 65 means SISIP to age 65;

F. Veterans will be quick to point out that this would not matter as SISIP is clawed back from ELB, to which I reply:

(i) SISIP LTD has a non-assignability clause & government must respect contracts;

(ii) SISIP LTD is non-indemnity & contributory which means that ELB cannot take it off in the common law (Cugliari v White ONCA 1998; Sulz BCCA 2006);

(iii) SISIP LTD cannot take ELB as NVC s. 89 prohibits & VAC has been clawing back SISIP LTD since 2006. To reverse the process is ABSURD;

So to recap:

1. The veteran I am trying to help has been on SISIP (2 years) + ELB (2 years) so obviously she is TPI as the programs are claimed to be "complementary" & do not "stack." I say that as she on the mirror program past the 2 years where the "own occupation" definition kicks in. As it stands now, SISIP does 2 years "own occupation," followed by VC doing another 2 years "own occupation!" That is ABSURD;

2. VAC is delaying the normal process used by all of the other Federal LTD plans. Delay saves money;

3. It also causes major privacy invasion as it means that you are under their thumb for twice as long;

4. They re saving major dollars in damages for injury in service. The old pension did not take CPP, SISIP LTD or the CF pension into account while ELB does;

5. They are also trying to rewrite the common law of Tort damages by adding CONDITIONS such as Rehabilitation to damages or no money.

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by 1993firebird on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 16:17

It all worked out for me when I started receiving CPPD. My pension and SISIP went down a total amount together around the same amount as my CPPD is.

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by Panserbjørn on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 17:06

I am in the process of applying for CPP(D) but where I just moved my new family doctor just met me. I doubt that would affect the CPP decision but how can the doctor properly write about me and my prognosis if she has only met me once for ten minutes. Just enough time to write a script.

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by Trooper on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 17:16

Panserbjørn, what about your med docs from Fredericton? If you have not requested them, you should contact your old doctors office and have them forward them to your new doctor in BC.
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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by 1993firebird on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 21:12

exactly.

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by Panserbjørn on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 21:17

I never had a family doctor in Fredericton. Would the MIR still have my file and would I have the ability to request it be sent to my new doctor? I might make a few calls tomorrow (everything is closed now.)

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by sabrelove on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 22:09

Panser, if you have released, you will need to send in a request to the Access to Information (Privacy Act) for a copy of your medical records.  You can get a paper copy or a copy on CD.  I also recommend you request a copy of you pers file and your dental records too.  Here is the link:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/requests-personal.asp

It can take a while to get them.  It was 8 months before I received a copy of my med docs and I was out of the Reg F for 3 years before I put in my request.

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 22:11

maybe ???? depends how long . however you will have to ask DND for a copy .

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 22:12

ya sent this before I seen sabers she has more detail follow that .

thanks saber

propat

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by Panserbjørn on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 22:14

Thanks sabrelove. I will put in the requests tomorrow.

Will do propat lol

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Re: SISIP LTD and PIA/Sup

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 22:16

ya I'm slow tonight call me ray elever til tomorrow lol.

propat

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