Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by bigrex on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 13:33

From the SISIP LTD policy

"55. Reductions
a. The monthly benefit payable shall be reduced by the sum of:
(i) the monthly income benefits payable to the member under the Canadian Forces
Superannuation Act and the primary Canada or Quebec Pension Plans (including
retroactive payments);
(ii) the earned income of the member including retroactive payments, unless the member is
participating in a rehabilitation program approved by the Insurer; and
(iii) the total monthly income benefits payable to the member under the Pension Act
(including dependents benefits and retroactive payments).

b. If the sum of all monthly income benefits for any month or partial month under all sources,
including the following:
(i) The Canadian Forces Superannuation Act;
(ii) The Canada Pension Plan or Quebec Pension Plan;
(iii) The Defence Services Pension Continuation Act; and,
(iv) The Pension Act
exceeds 100% of the member's monthly pay in effect on the day disability benefits commenced,
then the monthly income benefit otherwise payable for that month or partial month under this
coverage will be reduced by the amount of such excess, except as provided in Subsection 55(c).

c. For disabilities occurring on or after 01 December 1973, any increase in monthly income benefits
from the sources specified in subsection 55(b) shall not be included in determining the monthly
income benefit under this contract, unless those increases during a given calendar year exceed
cost of living adjustment plus 10% of the benefit level applicable to any such source on 31
December of the previous calendar year. "


Well, I'm not sure about CPP(D) and the CF pension, but I know for a fact that when SISIP deducted the PA, they also deducted the COLA increases as well, even though it was against the policy. I have the financial worksheet from the lawsuit to prove it. So they may be deducting the COLA for all of them, just that the COLA amounts have been so small over the last several years, that you don't realize it.

And I realize that the COLA hasn't been above 2% in a couple of years, but when the economy improves, which I hope is soon, maybe the GoC will stop artificially deflating the COLA to save money. Because everyone, especially those living on a fixed income, knows that the actual costs of everything, have increased exponentially more than the COLA .adjustments
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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 20:43

bigrex I'm looking at 24 a and b from the policy in regards to amount . and the policy clearly states that none of the COLA increases are to be considered relevant to the monthly benefit payable under the policy . that's including the PA .

can they ??? sure illegally . they were doing it to me for a few months after I started receiving monthly benefits until I caught on and told them no fracking way . you go back to the amounts I was getting in 2008 when I first applied and not todays amounts .

guess what ??? they changed it .

propat




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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 20:58

my concern is having them changing things that aint that bad because these fracking guys can make em worse .

you me sure make the change I'm comfortable with that but these frackers no fracking way . ya sure they would stop the cap but then maybe change it to being applied to the net benefit and not gross ; the one change ive been expecting since the lawsuit ; and eliminating or changing 24 b so that they can deduct the COLA from those amounts .

heck bigrex the fracking NVC was started because vets wanted improved voc rehab and by the end of it well we did get that but look at what it cost .

just don't like these fracking monkeys fracking with stuff I really don't think is a huge problem lest they make it a huge problem .

ya see what I'm saying

propat

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by czerv on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 08:54

I do not understand something here, I would appreciate explanation.
IF, let say I get 5000 for LTD/SISIP and move to ELB (VAC) and get a job that gets me 2000 a month (before taxes) how much would SISIP or VAC take from it? How much would I have left?
How long can one stay on LTD/ELB (+REHAB) while 'working'?
It is a complicated system for me.
Thank you.

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by Guest on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 10:48

Others can jump in to correct OR agree with this reference I found ;

Earnings Loss Benefit - Determination of Variable “B”: Amounts from Prescribed Sources

Veterans’ Deductions

The following percentages of the APS listed in section 22 of the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Regulations (CFMVRCR) are to be considered when determining the amount of EL payable to a Veteran:
100% of the APS (a) through (f) listed in section 22 of the CFMVRCR;
100% of employment earnings payable while the Veteran is not participating in a rehabilitation plan or vocational assistance plan developed by the Minister; and,
50% of employment earnings payable while the Veteran is participating in a rehabilitation plan or vocational assistance plan developed by the Minister so long as:
the sum total of the earnings loss payable for a month, plus the monthly APS (a) through (f) listed in section 22 of the CFMVRCR; plus the total amount of employment earnings for a month, does not exceed the Veteran’s monthly imputed income;
any employment earnings that cannot be offset at 50% using the formula in (i) will be offset at 100%.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/policy/document/1063#anchor48678

With respect to how long you can continue on ELB while working I'm going to say that once your Rehab is complete, you need to be deemed (TPI) in order to continue receiving benefits from the ELB.

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by czerv on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:46

Thanks Trooper, this helps. So, if I understand it correctly: my 5000 +2000 (at50%) would let me keep all together 6000?
How long can you stay on Rehab?  I just started my second year with SISIP LTD.
My CM is rather useless (and new at this).

Cheers

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by bigrex on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 12:47

Czerv, with SISIP, it will likely end after the 24 months, unless you are deemed totally disabled, since I've only heard of a couple of cases where they approved a retraining program that is longer than 2 years. But unless you are taking part of an approved voc rehab program, AKA going to school to learn a new trade, they will deduct 100% of any employment income. And if they do deem you totally disabled, you cannot work, because as soon as you do, they will say that you no longer meet their criteria for continued benefits.
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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by Guest on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 12:51

Correct $6000 only if the $6000 does not take you over your (TOTAL) release salary, same goes for SISIP.

Definition - VRP Income Offset Formula for Employment Earnings (SISIP)
If a claimant earns income while participating in a VRP approved by the Insurer, the claimant's LTD benefit will be reduced by 50% of the gross employment income, or 50 cents for each dollar earned, until the member's total income from all sources reaches 100% of his monthly salary at release. In the case of a claimant who was on Class C service, the monthly pay in effect when the injury was incurred or the illness was contracted, adjusted to the present value by application of the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for each year benefits are payable. Thereafter, the claimant's benefit will be reduced by one dollar for each dollar earned.



How long can you be on rehab with SISIP?

SISIP LTD Vocational Rehabilitation Program.

Once former CAF members are approved in the program, the VRP will facilitate their return to gainful civilian employment through the enhancement of the former members' existing education, skills, training and experience. Since 1 Dec 99, eligible personnel who are released from the CAF for medical reasons are offered an initial period of a (maximum) of 30 months VRP; up to 6 consecutive months before their effective date of release and 24 consecutive months post-release. The effective date of release is the last day of paid service in the CAF and occurs after the completion of all retirement leave. The 30-month VRP period can be extended if the former member qualifies as totally disabled at the end of the post release 24-month period.

If the release is for other than medical reasons, and the former CAF member is totally disabled in accordance with the definition in the policy, then the member may qualify for VRP support. The terms "totally disabled" and "total disability" means that the member has been released from the CAF and that there is a clear and objective medical evidence, satisfactory to the Insurer, which confirms that the individual is incapacitated by an active, medically determinable physical or mental impairment which prevents the member from performing any and every duty of any substantially gainful occupation or employment for which the member is reasonably qualified by education, training or experience.

https://www.cfmws.com/en/aboutus/sisipfs/insurance/pages/vocational-rehabilitation-program.aspx

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by czerv on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 13:36

Thanks Trooper, this is very helpfull and very clear.
Cheers

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by LawnBoy77777 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 18:01

SISIP = ELB (when they want it)

When the NVC was enacted, they copied SISIP LTD policy 901102 into law.

That meant they had to repeal NVC Regs s. 22(a) after Manuge won his' case!

SISIP & ELB are often said to be "mirrors."

In the SISIP settlement, DoJ lawyers used proxies to establish SISIP LTD to age 65 & ELB was one such proxy. EIA & CPPD were another 2.

There is a trend to de-link SISIP & ELB.

1. The 2011 ELB change in minimum. SISIP refused for 7 months. When they finally caved in, it was made retroactive but, I think, VAC had to pay for the increase;

2. Last year & the Res F equity fix I didn't get yet. SISIP refused to comply with the change in law;

3. I'll bet SISIP will not move to 90%.

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by Rifleman on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 19:47

I sure hope you are WRONG!!!

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by LawnBoy77777 on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 20:53

Lol so do I. I'm working hard on making SISIP go to 90%

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by Guest on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 21:30

Well, in the mail today got a letter from VAC about my ELB application which was 9 months into my SSIP LTD.  well passed the 120 days deadline.  

I got approved with no hassle and took about 3 months.  So, hats off to VAC and no complaints here.

Point of my post, if anyone has been denied because of the 120 day deadline here is proof and ammo that they do.  I will now ask for 15% more in Oct on my SSIP LTD and if they saw no I will ask ELB to top me up that extra 15%

So anyone on just SSIP get your ELB application in now.

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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by bigrex on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 22:18

ELB can be applied for at any time. I applied, and was approved, for EELB in 2012, over 6 years after my medical release.
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Re: Is ELB really equal to SISIP in ALL cases ????????

Post by Guest on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 22:32

Opps, I meant the rehab program deadline of 120 days. Got approved for the rehab program too.

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