Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by czerv on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 09:08

When I was leaving couple of years ago, I made sure that in my last medical/form I listed all the med conditions that I aquiered DURING service. Base surgeon stamped it 'concure' and
VAC does not give a sh** about any of this. Still have/had/will have to prove to them that it is service related.

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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by Teentitan on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 10:24

Well the vets with an ID card and have gone thru the system don't seem to understand that military personnel DO NOT GET AN ID CARD ANYMORE SAYING THEY ARE A VETERAN.

One other thing to remember is if the military says and adjudicates the soldier, sailor, airmen/women is broken in the court of law a lawsuit of careless work conditions is and will happen. So forget about the DND having adjudicators on injures.

It's a one step at a time scenario

First have a SERVING member with an ID card sign a waiver that any injuries that occur during a deployment, training whatever that after the Base Hospital does their paperwork it is electronically hooked up to VAC.

In other words the SERVING member has an automatic file with VAC created the first time he/she goes to the Base Hospital. And it is all right there sitting on a VAC server.

If the examination by the Base Hospital is bad enough that a VAC employee, CM,CSA whoever then that VAC employee contacts the nearest JPSU/IPSC for them to get in contact with injured member to submit a claim.

Just think about a member who served for 25-35 years and injuries catch up to him/her. All the member has to do is contact VAC and have a CM come to his/her house with their medical record on a thumb drive because the whole medical record of the retired member is not sitting in the archives in Ottawa it's on a server at VAC.

Not all ideas are for current veterans. Part of our job is to make it easier for future veterans.

So isn't having an ID card that ties your military record to a VAC medical server a good idea now?

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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by bigrex on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 20:12

Ok, but why? VAC already has access to all our electronic medical records, where they could punch in your Service number, and viola! All they need is a signed consent form, and a reason to look at the information. Having a file with VAC doesn't expedite claims. I've been a VAC client since 2004, 18 months before my release, but almost every one of my claims has taken the entire allotted time, or beyond.
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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by johnny211 on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 20:17

bigrex - I agree. I did my frostbite about 3 yrs before I got out, and still have to go thru the whole thing again with VAC. VVV...
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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by Teentitan on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 00:49

The goal is to make the DND doctor the deciding medical authority instead of the VAC doctor/nurse/medical adjudicator.

It would take some time but eventually DND doctors will get pissed off (or MND) that VAC is wasting a doctor's time by re-assessing the injuries. Which would decrease wait times for applications. Who knows maybe it will force VAC into hiring retired med techs and I believe P3 medical technicians. One of the goals is to get VAC to start taking the DND doctors decision as the medical expert. Hey DND doctors decide our career so shouldn't the DND assessment be the main medical reason as a start point for ending one's career?

This idea started about 7/8 years ago from the OVO's advisory council. A former medic suggested the card's magnetic strip could hold the vet's main medical problem (like PTSD) and the vet can walk into any hospital across Canada get the card swiped and the intake nurse at said hospital contacts VAC asap. Imagine how many homeless vets could be found?

One more thing Rex I don't think all retired military personnel med records are scanned yet. Yes they have our files now but I had to submit paper from my med records for my applications. Maybe things have changed?

Also included on the, let's call it the VAC medical ghost file, would be accident reports, witness statements, all inoculations and where in the world the vet was. Info we forget about or lose over time.
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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by bigrex on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 06:47

Personally I think that says less about DND and their ability to determine the cause of injury, and more about VAC and their culture of delay and deny, because they will almost always refuse to accept the medical opinions of the doctors who actually treat the soldier or Veteran, even if it's fully within the power to do so. They may take that statement into account when making their final decision, but they will never make a decision based solely on it, which is just wrong.
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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by Guest on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 07:27

thing is DND doctors right their reports as usual NOT as they are speaking to DVA linking everything they treat to a military accident or incident . however if the member is in the military that is exactly what they do if in fact that ongoing back problem they have been treating was caused by incident A witch they initially treated .

boys I seen a social worker type person in the MIR they were part of release section and at least for me she wasn't just checking boxes . she told me if she didn't sign off on my file I couldn't be released .

she did her job fantastically and I was released they way EVERYONE should be .

cards and mandates be dammed I say . the solution to the problem and the type of personnel and structure are already in place to do the job that needs doing .

they just need to do it for everyone . might need the slightest of tweaking if any and a small staff increase but the solution is already in place it just needs to be used properly .

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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by Teentitan on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 13:17

And what better way to get that solution propat then have DND doctors discussing injuries with VAC adjudicators who only tick off boxes?

Rex it's going to be a slow procedure that has to be accepted mainly by VAC. How many years have we said why isn't the DND doctors report the only medical report needed?

I look at having a ghost file at VAC being a tune up for VAC. We are not a workman's comp claim. We have been broken by DND and they don't need us anymore! So this is the medical starting point.

Not going to another doctor who hasn't got a feckn' clue what we do in the DND. That's the medical decision VAC uses.

I can see why Hehr is adamant against the idea of a veteran card because they know ABSOLUTELY NO ONE FALLS THRU THE CRACKS.

We have to remember here ladies and gents we are the voice of experience for our younger military. Do we want them to go thru the same meat grinder we went thru to a claim approved?

This forum is not only about getting money it's about making life easier for the next generation of veterans....hell look at what the Afghan vets are going thru a lawsuit just to argue Canada does have a sacred obligation to their veterans!
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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by Guest on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 14:35

that's what happened with me teen the DND doctors so IN FACT the DND itself said my issues WERE service related because they were applied for while I was still in the military AND still had a military doctor . no third party doctor connecting incidents to resultant conditions but the military itself saying ya that condition was cased by this incident so that's on us .

they had all the paperwork in file drawer and even though I would never use them and told them point blank why the had me talk to a service officer from a vets org just to touch base so I know what they do in case I may need them down the road .

no need to get a solution teen IT IS already in place they just NEED to use it for EVERYONE .

this is why I don't get the crap coming out of the MNDs mouth saying he cant do it . it IS IN FACT being done already just not for everyone .

propat

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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by pinger on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 20:29

Wouldn't it be nice if things were so much simpler.

Maybe yes, and maybe no, but just another can of GoC worms to me.

So where's the solution? "streamlining" ? (sorry I just gagged). A card? Mmm...

I was injured bye bye while serving and was documented. Never gave a rat's xxx.
And released after 5-ish.

What really peeves me off is this dis-connect though.

WHAT IN BLAZES DO VAC/ AND/OR THEIR DOCTORS NEED TO RE-VALIDATE DND DOCTORS FOR ?
PRAY TELL . . . ?
IS IT THEIR INTEGRITY ? Sorry for the emphasis but it just seems very fracking retarded to me.
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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by Guest on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 21:53

well pinger that's the big question isn't it . I mean if you apply for a pension after release you either get assessed by a DVA doctor or in most cases by your doctor . that seems to be the case around here anyway . if you are still serving however different story . you apply for a pension around here while you are still serving . your military doctor will do the assessment in VERY FEW cases where most will be done by the VAC doctor down in st johns.

I think it has to do more with a plausible means of fracking us over .

when the military does your assessment and links your condition to service in the military its really fracking hard to deny because then it is fact not a third party doctors OPINION .

DVA and VRAB do NOT want military doctors doing assessments for DVA claims I mean how the frack are they gonna get their bonuses up that way ? I mean the denial deushes gots ta get paid to don't they ?

truth be told the mil doctors don't want to do it either to much work load already . they don't mind doing it from time to time and are outstanding at it . from what I seen the only extra staffing required to do EVERYONE releasing from Gagetown would be one extra doctor and one extra social worker type . no need to change the system they put me through it was outstanding .

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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by Teentitan on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 12:31

One thing I forgot to mention on why the DND doctors report is the single report needed.

As a member of the CF the health standard is higher then civy street. That said an injury in the CF that ends your career is looked at by the CF way different then a job on civy street.

That is the medical examination VAC does not want to use because they want the civy street equivalent medical examination which most of the time is way lower.
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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by pinger on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 16:31

Teen wrote " That is the medical examination VAC does not want to use because they want the civy street equivalent medical examination which most of the time is way lower. "
Well, at least that makes some kinda sense albeit in a bad way for us.
Now why did bureaucrats just cross my mind . . .
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Smoother military exit system for soldiers still years away, documents show

Post by Guest on Fri 16 Dec 2016, 07:19

Smoother military exit system for soldiers still years away, documents show

Minister blames backlog on previous 'more teeth, less tail' cuts at National Defence

By Murray Brewster, CBC News Posted: Dec 16, 2016 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Dec 16, 2016 5:34 AM ET


Retired corporal Pamela McArthur left the Canadian Forces in mid-October and has been waiting more than two months for her severance, military pension and veterans benefits.

Building a smoother, less confusing exit path for soldiers departing the Canadian military will take another two or three years to implement and will likely not include significant recommendations from the Canadian Forces ombudsman, CBC News has learned.

A draft copy of the strategy shows that many key elements of the Liberal government's overhaul of the system — namely the harmonization of financial benefits — will not take place until the 2018-19 budget year.

That is likely to be frustrating for ex-military members who have been routinely caught up in a system that makes them wait weeks, sometimes months, for Canadian Forces pensions or separate veterans' benefits and entitlements.

A copy of the May 2016 draft plan was obtained by CBC News. It was prepared by a joint working group of National Defence and Veterans Affairs, and says building a bridge between the two departments is a priority.

The 12-page document lays out a complex, multi-year program with the stated intent of making it easier for members of the military to transition from uniform to civilian life through more employment, financial certainty and, in some cases, medical certainty.

'Closing the seam'

Both Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan and Veterans Affairs Minister Kent Hehr have been tasked with — and often talk about — "closing the seam" between their organizations.

'I'm a single mother. What do I do? I'm a young person. I don't have the money and I lived paycheque to paycheque in the military.'
Retired corporal Pamela McArthur

The government and outside experts have come to the realization that ex-soldiers, whose transition out of uniform has been messed up, face higher probability of being in crisis.

In some cases, a bad release from the Forces is believed to contribute to higher incidence of homelessness and perhaps even suicide.

The plan does not include some of the most important recommendations recently made by military ombudsman Gary Walbourne, who has said there should be concierge services to guide soldiers through the complex system and to check up on them afterward.

Walbourne also said Veterans Affairs should automatically accept the military medical diagnosis that ends a soldier's career, rather than insisting on doing its own assessment — a system that sometimes sees veterans denied benefits for conditions that ended their military careers.

He also insisted that soldiers not be released until their benefits are set up, including pension and severance payments.


Ombudsman Gary Walbourne says there should be concierge services to guide soldiers through the complex process of leaving the Forces.

Pamela McArthur, a retired corporal and former military police officer, was released on medical grounds in mid-October and has yet to see her severance pay, military pension or disability benefits.

"I'm a single mother. What do I do?" McArthur said in an interview with CBC News. "I'm a young person. I don't have the money and I lived paycheque to paycheque in the military."

McArthur, who has no income, applied for veterans disability benefits in June, prior to her departure. She was only recently assigned a case manager.

McArthur has been told she'll have to cover the cost of her medication until the government decides on her eligibility, which could take up to a year.

"I don't know if I'm going to be covered. You just don't know," said McArthur, who spent just over nine years in uniform.

'How can people wait this long'

Separately, she has called the Canadian Forces pension line, where a recorded message tells callers not to clog up the answering machine with repeat phone calls.

"So I left a message and I haven't heard anything," McArthur said.

Frustrated and angry for both herself and others, she said the ombudsman's recommendations should be heeded.

"It's horrible, it's really horrible," said McArthur, adding she cannot understand why a systemic overhaul takes so long and why the military and Veterans Affairs cannot have everything arranged for a departing soldier within a six-month window prior to their last day.

"How can people wait this long? It just doesn't make any sense."


Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan says the backlog has been caused by the former Conservative government's deficit reduction plan that forced the military to make 'difficult decisions.

Sajjan said he is also upset with the current state of the system. His department has put more resources into fixing the problem, he said, but concedes it's not enough.

According to Sajjan, the previous Conservative government's focus on cutting overhead at National Defence is to blame.

"We have had this backlog because there were very little resources put to pensions," said Sajjan, referring to former prime minister Stephen Harper's demand that the military have "more teeth and less tail" in terms of bureaucracy.

"The military had to make some difficult decisions when the deficit-reduction plan was brought in by the previous government to balance the budget. Now we're dealing with the impact of those decisions."

Officials at the Defence Department insist they are working on solutions and hope to have a system in place to guide soldiers through transition.

Canadian Forces spokesman Lt. Kelly Boyden said they will run a pilot program called "Guided Support," which "would serve as a media-of-choice gateway to benefits and services."

But Boyden's email response did not define precisely what that means.

'Basically, we're just a number'

A clue, however, can be found in internal documents obtained by CBC News.

According to a one-page briefing note, dated last week, senior officials at National Defence are expected to debate on Friday three proposed "courses of action" to help close the seam.

The centrepiece of the proposal that will go before Maj.-Gen. Wayne Eyre, the deputy commander of military personnel, involves the establishment of a single "web-based portal" for soldiers that allows them to set up transitions accounts where all of the details of their departure can be accessed.

In addition, the military would build transition centres that have a better ability to "triage" soldiers coming through the door, many of whom might have complex health concerns and pension issues.

McArthur said she feels there is no sense of urgency or understanding that people's lives are at stake.

"Basically, we're just a number, a piece of paper, and hopefully they'll get to you."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-release-overhaul-1.3899044

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Re: Stop cutting loose ill, injured soldiers too early, ombudsman tells military

Post by Dannypaj on Fri 16 Dec 2016, 08:47

Veterans Affairs should automatically accept the military medical diagnosis that ends a soldier's career, rather than insisting on doing its own assessment — a system that sometimes sees veterans denied benefits for conditions that ended their military careers.

I still can picture that arrogant smirk on his face.


Pandora's box is opening. NVC does not equal equality. (Women soldiers with mental/physical wounds scared while pregnant that they may lose their ELB,WTF= demonstrates that there is no clarity of the suits of benefits under the NVC )  

Question for CSAT.
I had a lawyer ( disbarred, not sure why )represent me and he failed.  What would you do if you were misrepresented?
I want my case looked at from the beginning.
Dragging and denying me and using me as a Commissionaire in half way house with PTSD, A holes!!!!

Mental health, stop taking all meds? (they control that, as you can see by reducing MMJ unnoticed and without compassion). Why are we being dragged through court for their changes in policies and legislation that we had no say in?
The big fearful SUPREME court (what a money making sham), thousands upon thousands of veterans with social media in the palm of their hands.
THEY ARE ALL IN CAHOOTS
Bitter about a lost career?
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