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ELB Class Action Law Suit

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ELB CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT

Post by Ex Member on Wed 14 Aug 2013, 09:32

meteck wrote:hey supreme debater.i think your full of crap..i have been on this topic with the ombudsmans office for almost a year now and they say its amatter of deleting one rule so the current rule can be applied..its alot of money and their fiscal year dictates how fast change will occur,,but change is coming..your wrong and i think perhaps not a valid veteran...
Excuse me? not a valid Veteran? who are you to come on here with 41 posts and tell people they are not valid, nor Veterans? You keep believing the Ombudsman's office. A political appointed office that does absolutely squat for the Veterans. Go to the Ombudsman with a complaint...see how long it takes them to even get back to you with answers or for that matter a phone call! I am a Veteran as well as an Advocate that helps uneducated people like you Meteck with the system.  The elb retro will be brought in, but no time soon! Watch and see! The exact reason above is why I do not come on here as much anymore. I was a member when Csat first started pal! don't be misled bythe amount of posts or my join date!

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by Brasidas on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 19:49

The fiscal year is always key in these situations. We still have 8-9 months before anything happens. Waiting is tough.

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by meteck on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 15:41

hey supreme debater.i think your full of crap..i have been on this topic with the ombudsmans office for almost a year now and they say its amatter of deleting one rule so the current rule can be applied..its alot of money and their fiscal year dictates how fast change will occur,,but change is coming..your wrong and i think perhaps not a valid veteran...

meteck
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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by meteck on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 15:36

Its good to see the back and forth in here..i for one did talk to mike mcdonald at the ombudsmans office days ago and from our latest talk i know that this issue will be front and center at the meetings planned for sept to promote change to the new veterens charter. without all the details i feel fairly confident this issue will be addressed..remember korean war vets are in the same boat as us and the head of their organization also feels this will be settled in the coming year..wait for it,,dont give up..if they end up shafting us we sue...they dont want shitty press with veterans i assure you

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by EZRider on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 18:22

I'm one of those readers that have decided to register as the ELB retro has my attention.   I've followed along regarding the SISIP clawback ( still waiting for purolator ) and much appreciate the effort of all involved wrt that fight.  I appreciate what you have to say bigrex and hope this thread will take a positive spin and down the road, the right decision is made.

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by bigrex on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 16:08

Well, I'm in Halifax, as my profile indicates, so getting together is off the table. As far as engaging CSAT, why not? Sharing of info, good and bad, is what CSAT is all about. But you come here and post, get upset when other members try to be positive about the ELB retro, but you won't provide us with the evidence that you claim to have that says it isn't going to happen. Others may even start calling you a troll, just trying to cause members grief for your own amusement, because we have seem similar behavior in the early days of the SISIP lawsuit. So, unless you want to be mislabelled as a troublemaker, I suggest you start being more forthcoming with your proof, like which Ministers did you talk to? Which ADM told you it isn't happening? When did the PM tell you we weren't getting paid? If the government truly believed that the ELB clawback was completely legal and above board, they would not have ceased the clawback until forced to by a judge. They would have kept on deducting our money and said see "see you in court", like are doing with the RCMP and their version of SISIP.
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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by Guest on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 15:41

BigRex, where do you live? I am in northern N.B. We should get together, some of the info I have you will hate but some other might make you very happy. I am not engaging CSAT, I have been fighting since october of 2006 about the money they were keeping from my ELB benefites while I was on rehab. My fight against VAC pushed me far enough so I got answer from 2 (two) fedral ministers. Ther are good people fighting for us in Ottawa, I respect their request for being honest to them and give them a chance to do something for us.

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by bigrex on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 15:23

Ok. you have said that you have been informed in writing that they do not intend on paying retro. So why don't you scan the letters, post them here so we can all see. Just black out your personal info. I would also contact the media, because publicly, they have not ruled out paying retro. They are correct that they could legally deducted PA payments, but by only fixing this half way, they have caused a case of discrimination to occur, which is a breach of human rights legislation. So if you truly want to fight this, as you say, then you have to start engaging more than just those here on CSAT.
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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by Guest on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 14:52

BigRex;
please read carefully to understans why they don't paln on paying us yet;

new law, check the date it came into effect

Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Regulations
This version of section 22 is in force from 2012-10-01 to 2013-06-25.

old law checks the dates that apply:
Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Regulations
This version of section 22 is in force from 2006-03-23 to 2012-09-30.
Next Versionof section
22. The following sources are prescribed for the purpose of the amount of variable B in subsection 19(1) of the Act:

(a) disability pension benefits payable under the Pension Act;

before calling me an ass call the VAC conflict resolution hotline and ask them, then call your deputy, the ombudsman and then the minister himself, and listen carefully to their answers.
I call VAC, the ombudsman ,my deputy, two federal ministers, one Prime Minister and they all agreed in their response, keeping our money
from 2006-03-23 to 2012-09-30. was perfectly legal and as long as those dates are not repelled the decision is still valid and legal.
So instead of trying to prove me wrong you should try to help me unite everyone so we can win this for all.


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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by bigrex on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 14:32

Cook, you do not have to be an ass, I've read the link, but when policies or regulations are changed, the older version is no longer valid, unless otherwise stated. So the the new regulations should have stated "(a) Benefits paid under the Pension Act, from 2006-03-23 to 2012-09-30." if they were dead set on not paying any retro.

I understand that you are doubtful, as delays have been and will continue to be par for the course, but so far everything done to the ELB has been voluntary. It was likely done to avoid a future lawsuit similar to SISIP, but done on their own accord none the less. The retro will likely be the same. By telling some Veterans that they are entitled to full ELB, and other that they are not, based on a court order that doesn't even involve ELB, has caused a situation of discrimination based on when Veterans were approved for benefits. Voluntarily stopping the ELB clawback actually weakened what would have been a strong legal argument if standing in front of a judge, because the ELB policy did not include the wording "income benefits under the Pension Act", which is what sank the SISIP case for breach of contract, but by stopping the clawback, they have admitted it was legally wrong, even if contractually correct. So I believe that ELB retro shall be paid, and until it is, that we should all keep up the pressure on them to do so, and if it doesn't get paid by 2014, I will gladly lend my voice to a class action to fix it.

And just so you know cook, I am also owed ELB retro, since am not reinstated on SISIP, so it's not like I do not have a stake in your battle, it's just that I'm trying to be optimistic. But being optimistic does not mean I am ready or willing to give them a free ride.
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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by Rifleman on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 14:25

I strongly believe in what you have stated propat it does not take a big force to win a battle ( that would be nice) I strongly believe if we as a group continue to voice our opinions on all topics that concerns all vets we will be heard big or small groups

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by Guest on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 13:57

yes supreme the leaders sure like to soak up the light at times fore sure but I find when the chatter starts to sound off in harmony no leaders are required for action just a suggestion from a voice in the crowed. as far as us being a small group you are right with that but that's all you need at times at least to start. eg; instead of continuing a fight on my own to get ELB and PIA applications I got hold of a handful of vets having the same problem with the same CM and we all stated with the letters e-mails and phone calls. long story short the CM was replaced and we all got our applications others after the fact had no problems getting theirs the first time they asked. all of the handful I spoke of have written at least one letter on behalf of CSAT issues ie; buyout,ELB retro and GOC paying legal fees just because I brought it up and none of them are registered members although they are all readers now. we all have friends and contacts that are vets as well no further away that our telephone so I truly believe if the cause is important enough our effect can outweigh the numbers of registered members and vet dedicated readers.

propat

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by Guest on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 13:27

Yes I'm saying the leaders of these groups enjoy the spotlight way too much to unite. And Csat is a very small fraction of Veterans.

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by Guest on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 13:24

supreme you do have a point but I don't think groups like the spotlight on themselves but individuals within the group and I believe them to be in the minority.can we all unite???
no I don't expect that. I do believe however a majority can unite. what percentage??? my belief is that will all depend on us getting the information out there and constantly carrying on the conversation. I truly think 90% of the well informed is possible.

propat

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

Post by Guest on Thu 25 Jul 2013, 12:27

Yes but I even see people here delete there accounts constantly, some argue and fight with each other here even. Like sisip for example. Ego is the toxic chemical eating the entities that are separate groups. All of the different groups like the spotlight on themselves way too much for us to all unite. Sad!

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Re: ELB Class Action Law Suit

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