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PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

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PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by prawnstar on Mon 11 Apr 2016, 16:14

Rags wrote:Rex:
Actually it is called Combat Stress and combat stress if untreated develops into PTSD. I in fact have that diagnosis on my med file.

Open Comment to all:
If you dont have Combat Stress diagnosis as cause to your PTSD and you had no traumatic job then what caused your PTSD? If you have other mental issues and stresses that develop into PTSD then they are what they are no one is going to admit they have manic depression before they went over seas or did Funeral Officer duties and that gave them a pre disposed weakness that developed into PTSD (under new weaker and easier to get assess DSM). The difference in the types is the point I make.

The lumping of PTSD as caused by ones military job when it is not a really hard dangerous scary traumatic military job as an explanation for why one cant make it in the Military work place is just smoke and mirrors and causes those with valid military developed PTSD actually from there tough traumatic job to be stigmatized.

Call me crazy but I dont accept the OR Admin Cpl getting mad at the photo copier cause they just had a marital break up and joined the forces with a pre existing depression disorder and has a complete nervous break down while filling out the repatriation paperwork and delivering to a grieving family with the funeral officer as reason for work related PTSD.....but it sure is not no matter how you stretch combat battle or occupation related trauma.

As I said read the medical arguments on the change to DSM back to old system then come back and argue validity......enough of the emotional responses....which even I have been caught up in with my emotional WTF comment.

Maybe a piece of common ground would be to declare in the open med file some thing as simple as (PTSD as a result of Combat Stress) or (PTSD as a result of pre existing mental condition exacerbated by work stress non traumatic) or (PTSD as a result of non military occupation) That is how it was done years ago pre 99. But that would preclude DVA giving money maybe thats the issue MONEY. In this tax season one should ask themselves the question if the Tax payer knew they were paying big dollars out to military who were released for non military related mental disorders from pre existing conditions would they be supportive of the whole Vets and PTSD issue?

It is time we take a good hard look and what we are saying and have a real honest discussion on whole PTSD quagmire.

In the words of my Psychiatrist "...if I actually wrote them up for what they really have they would not get the support they need and the stigma created would harm them even worse and reduce there chance of getting better. As a doctor and do no harm I write up the non PTSD as PTSD so they get the veterans support and medical treatment they need now and in the future. What does it harm if they feel better about the diagnosis and it gets them treatment?" My response was " well you have a point but in the big picture its a lie and that hurts truth and it hurts the tax payer who pays for a medical issue not part of the job and most important to me it perpetuates the stigma for the truly combat stress injured who now have PTSD. We all get lumped into same place.

Teen:
No Doctor will comment on this in a forum so its easy for you to say you are right with your view unless a Dr comes on forum to challenges you. Knowing they wont whether your wrong or not makes that a useless argument position, but is typical of the non debate position on PTSD cause it may hurt someones feelings.



Rags
My shrink told me that she is getting more and more people trying to scam the system. They read up on all the symptoms and present them as if they actually have them. This is where respectable mental health professionals need to separate the wheat from the chaff. When I meet other vets with PTSD I can sense it. I really don't like PTSD being lumped in with mental health. It is a brain INJURY just like if you got hit over the head with a baseball bat. I did not have mental health issues before I was subjected to all the nasty shyte I have seen over the years leading up to my diagnosis. I am in training with a service dog and my invisible injury will become visible through my dog. We are gonna get hosed by the Lieberals just like before. Just look at JT this morning on the news and see that his priorities are about something that happened in 1912.

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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by johnny211 on Sat 09 Apr 2016, 17:12

teen and bigrex - both of your last 2 posts where very well written. I belong to the OSSIS gp, and we have Afgan, Bosnia, Crotia, cold war Vets all with ptsd, usually with other mental probs caused by ptsd, ie;anxiety, etc. We never judge ones reason for ending up there. As for me Rags, my battle was on a couple of small islands behind the Swiss Air crash. Like a war Vet, its crap I will never get out of my head. But like bigrex said, do all we can not to run head on into a truck. I keep my pscy appts, massage, EMDR, equine thearphy, yoga, mindfullness. And I thank DVA every day that I get this stuff, because I know life would be a mess without it, or not at all. So in closeing like teen said, Pray to god , DVA does not only go with the word "Combat Stress" for ptsd claims, because alot of us would be in the hurt locker. This old Rad Op will shut up now. VVV...
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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by bigrex on Sat 09 Apr 2016, 12:45

I agree with Teen. If VAC reads that other vets are doubting claims of PTSD among their peers, based solely on personal beliefs, for example that PTSD cannot result from any experience short of combat, VAC could in turn could deny future legitimate claims, simply because the Veteran had not been in combat, or high threat environment.

So instead of focusing on why a Veteran may be suffering, let's focus on how to help stop their suffering, that doesn't involve suicide.
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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by Teentitan on Sat 09 Apr 2016, 11:50

Rags if PTSD can only happen due to combat then why did a bill in Ontario pass this week for recognizing PTSD for first line responders? These people are not in combat.

There are multiple reasons and definitions to the cause of PTSD. In my opinion PTSD diagnosed is PTSD. Wether it's a combat vet or a clerk it doesn't matter and it doesn't 'dilute' from either person's job.

If we veterans argue amongst ourselves who has real PTSD we are only taking away the importance of PTSD treatment. Eventually VAC picks up on these kinds of "discussions" and the injury only becomes white-noise to them and they do not take the injury serious anymore.

We all have our own opinions on the cause of PTSD. I suggest we shift the opinions to treatment of PTSD not cause.
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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by Ex Member on Sat 09 Apr 2016, 11:18

What your missing Rags is no one condition is more Important than any other. What about a sailor that develops ptsd while serving in an SDA he's covered no matter what under the insurance principle, which covers any and all conditions that develop while in that area! Putting tags on conditions and whose got what is wrong. I know police officers serving in Toronto that have experience brutal conditions much worse than your combat experience. Try 20 to 30 years old constant exposure to gunfire and brutal crimes, does that make their pstd any less than yours. And to label people with mental illness as a pre disposed weakness is dead wrong and Rags your on the wrong side of history. In fact you kinda sound like what VAC used to sound like. Get with the times or maybe your living in a pre disposed state of mind you can't understand!

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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by Rags on Sat 09 Apr 2016, 10:33

Rex:
Actually it is called Combat Stress and combat stress if untreated develops into PTSD. I in fact have that diagnosis on my med file.

Open Comment to all:
If you dont have Combat Stress diagnosis as cause to your PTSD and you had no traumatic job then what caused your PTSD? If you have other mental issues and stresses that develop into PTSD then they are what they are no one is going to admit they have manic depression before they went over seas or did Funeral Officer duties and that gave them a pre disposed weakness that developed into PTSD (under new weaker and easier to get assess DSM). The difference in the types is the point I make.

The lumping of PTSD as caused by ones military job when it is not a really hard dangerous scary traumatic military job as an explanation for why one cant make it in the Military work place is just smoke and mirrors and causes those with valid military developed PTSD actually from there tough traumatic job to be stigmatized.

Call me crazy but I dont accept the OR Admin Cpl getting mad at the photo copier cause they just had a marital break up and joined the forces with a pre existing depression disorder and has a complete nervous break down while filling out the repatriation paperwork and delivering to a grieving family with the funeral officer as reason for work related PTSD.....but it sure is not no matter how you stretch combat battle or occupation related trauma.

As I said read the medical arguments on the change to DSM back to old system then come back and argue validity......enough of the emotional responses....which even I have been caught up in with my emotional WTF comment.

Maybe a piece of common ground would be to declare in the open med file some thing as simple as (PTSD as a result of Combat Stress) or (PTSD as a result of pre existing mental condition exacerbated by work stress non traumatic) or (PTSD as a result of non military occupation) That is how it was done years ago pre 99. But that would preclude DVA giving money maybe thats the issue MONEY. In this tax season one should ask themselves the question if the Tax payer knew they were paying big dollars out to military who were released for non military related mental disorders from pre existing conditions would they be supportive of the whole Vets and PTSD issue?

It is time we take a good hard look and what we are saying and have a real honest discussion on whole PTSD quagmire.

In the words of my Psychiatrist "...if I actually wrote them up for what they really have they would not get the support they need and the stigma created would harm them even worse and reduce there chance of getting better. As a doctor and do no harm I write up the non PTSD as PTSD so they get the veterans support and medical treatment they need now and in the future. What does it harm if they feel better about the diagnosis and it gets them treatment?" My response was " well you have a point but in the big picture its a lie and that hurts truth and it hurts the tax payer who pays for a medical issue not part of the job and most important to me it perpetuates the stigma for the truly combat stress injured who now have PTSD. We all get lumped into same place.

Teen:
No Doctor will comment on this in a forum so its easy for you to say you are right with your view unless a Dr comes on forum to challenges you. Knowing they wont whether your wrong or not makes that a useless argument position, but is typical of the non debate position on PTSD cause it may hurt someones feelings.



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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by Ex Member on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 17:38

withdrawing my comments aint worth the hassle

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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by bigrex on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 16:09

That is why it is called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and NOT Combat Stress Disorder. You do not have had to be involved with combat to develop it. It only has to be traumatic for that individual. True, they may be predisposed to develop a mental illness, but since there is no real test for such things, and there is no history of mental illness, you cannot look at a Veteran and say "We're sorry that you feel this way, but in our opinion, you would have been gone nuts anyways!" and deny their application.

And I'm sorry, but if anyone had to tell families day in and day out, that their sons,daughters,husbands,wives, or worse that their fathers or mothers were never coming home, and stand there and watch their world fall apart in front of them, and not be affected, then they were a sociopath.
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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by Teentitan on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 14:40

PTSD is PTSD so to try and act/say what is and what isn't the 'cause' of PTSD is in my opinion disrespectful.

NO ONE has the right to say anything about what causes PTSD. So unless you have are a psychologist, psychiatrist, social worker then your diagnoses of an individual with PTSD is WRONG!
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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by prawnstar on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 12:45

Rags wrote:Its not about getting all emotional and into a pissing contest about what constitutes valid causes of PTSD or not.

I cannot pass comment on a flight controller in the "can" not sure what his specific task is and what mission he ran. If I did have knowledge of his actions then I maybe be able to pass a non medical opinion on credibility. I am a Combat Controller. I have done terminal control through a camera and through a radio voice satellite only and been at the sharp end where I terminally guide the weapon to a target within my sight, smell, sound and feel proximity.
Being a combat controller is not being an AF Int guy sitting in an air conditioned office not doing any terminal stuff at all. Int staff dont do that it is all paperwork assessment no sharp end at all so the two cannot be compared. Furthermore you cant compare the missions Gulf W1 Canada saw no combat was involved in no battles nore close to any. The only exception is a small group of loaned staff to Brit French and US military and the 6 F-18s that flew some sorties. So when talking Gulf W1 one must be carefull when talking Combat Stress that developed into PTSD. NOTE I SAID "COMBAT STRESS". As what black 84U said we must educate ourselves. So very very true cause the way it appears there are alot who dont understand the full dynamic of mental illness and the small component of mental illness that is PTSD from Combat Stress. I do not support mixing the stress and calling it all PTSD from battle its not. I

If you have read some of my positions on PTSD you will know I believe and I not alone in this opinion that there are too many people lumping mental disorders under PTSD and then lumping non battle related PTSD into the Combat Stress catagory of PTSD. All so DVA can payout cash to mental illness that has nothing to do with the job of war fighting.

Hopefully the DSM on PTSD will be set back to the old version and this will all get cleared up right quick. It would appear that is the next plan for the medical community. Read the DSM on PTSD, the old one and new one and read the proposed position on PTSD that is about to be released. Then come back and have this discussion from which DSM you agree with and why the others and not valid. No emotion just constructive thought and discussion.

And as a final comment from the guy that has been there and done that....Terminal guidance of a weapon onto a target using a camera satellite is easy no real stress there. Terminal guidance live as it occurs on the ground that is stressful......enough to cause Combat Stress that develops into PTSD....probably not you need more factors of trauma in the mix. As a not of experience it is really easy to live with the bad guys ya killed it is not easy to put into context and come to grips with the innocent ones or defenseless. When it comes to Combat Stress "guilt" is a huge factor in recovery. If your guilty of something then you probably will never recover...Gen Dellaire would be good case in point.


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Hey Rags. He was the guy that dropped bombs on people all over the world from drones that were controlled from "cans" like Sea container type cans. Sorry for the unclear lingo.

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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by Rags on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 12:36

WTF no disrespect but ya dont get PTSD from being the funeral officer unless ya had a pre existing mental condition to start then its that condition not PTSD that you have.....HOLY CRAP. This is not rocket science

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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by Rags on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 12:33

Its not about getting all emotional and into a pissing contest about what constitutes valid causes of PTSD or not.

I cannot pass comment on a flight controller in the "can" not sure what his specific task is and what mission he ran. If I did have knowledge of his actions then I maybe be able to pass a non medical opinion on credibility. I am a Combat Controller. I have done terminal control through a camera and through a radio voice satellite only and been at the sharp end where I terminally guide the weapon to a target within my sight, smell, sound and feel proximity.
Being a combat controller is not being an AF Int guy sitting in an air conditioned office not doing any terminal stuff at all. Int staff dont do that it is all paperwork assessment no sharp end at all so the two cannot be compared. Furthermore you cant compare the missions Gulf W1 Canada saw no combat was involved in no battles nore close to any. The only exception is a small group of loaned staff to Brit French and US military and the 6 F-18s that flew some sorties. So when talking Gulf W1 one must be carefull when talking Combat Stress that developed into PTSD. NOTE I SAID "COMBAT STRESS". As what black 84U said we must educate ourselves. So very very true cause the way it appears there are alot who dont understand the full dynamic of mental illness and the small component of mental illness that is PTSD from Combat Stress. I do not support mixing the stress and calling it all PTSD from battle its not. I

If you have read some of my positions on PTSD you will know I believe and I not alone in this opinion that there are too many people lumping mental disorders under PTSD and then lumping non battle related PTSD into the Combat Stress catagory of PTSD. All so DVA can payout cash to mental illness that has nothing to do with the job of war fighting.

Hopefully the DSM on PTSD will be set back to the old version and this will all get cleared up right quick. It would appear that is the next plan for the medical community. Read the DSM on PTSD, the old one and new one and read the proposed position on PTSD that is about to be released. Then come back and have this discussion from which DSM you agree with and why the others and not valid. No emotion just constructive thought and discussion.

And as a final comment from the guy that has been there and done that....Terminal guidance of a weapon onto a target using a camera satellite is easy no real stress there. Terminal guidance live as it occurs on the ground that is stressful......enough to cause Combat Stress that develops into PTSD....probably not you need more factors of trauma in the mix. As a not of experience it is really easy to live with the bad guys ya killed it is not easy to put into context and come to grips with the innocent ones or defenseless. When it comes to Combat Stress "guilt" is a huge factor in recovery. If your guilty of something then you probably will never recover...Gen Dellaire would be good case in point.


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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by bigrex on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 12:13

yes, and I've also heard that some of those that were tasked with informing family members that their loved one was killed, have also developed PTSD from causing that kind of anguish over and over. They do not know what exactly will cause PTSD, or in who, so it is not our place to say whether or not a person's PTSD claim is valid or not.
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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by prawnstar on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 11:33




My nephew was in the USAF. He was the bomb dropper in a can in the Nevada desert. He has never seen a drop of blood and spent five years in an air conditioned can. He has PTSD from all the lives he took but never saw "combat".


Last edited by prawnstar on Thu 07 Apr 2016, 11:33; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: PTSD diagnoses nearly triple amongst veterans in 8 years

Post by Ex Member on Wed 06 Apr 2016, 19:26

You can develop post-traumatic stress disorder when you go through, see or learn about an event involving actual or threatened death, serious injury.

Doctors aren't sure why some people get PTSD. As with most mental health problems, PTSD is probably caused by a complex mix of:

Inherited mental health risks, such as an increased risk of anxiety and depression
Life experiences, including the amount and severity of trauma you've gone through since early childhood
Inherited aspects of your personality often called your temperament
The way your brain regulates the chemicals and hormones your body releases in response to stress

I suggest we all continue to refresh our knowledge of PTSD

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