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Old ways of trying to fix the military aren't working. The Canadian Armed Forces should unionize

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Re: Old ways of trying to fix the military aren't working. The Canadian Armed Forces should unionize

Post by johnny211 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 12:47

Propaganda - yes tks for refreshing this old soldiers memory, they where conscripts and newly in. I think all your other pts are bang on though. And like you I do not think discipline would eurode. VVV...
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Re: Old ways of trying to fix the military aren't working. The Canadian Armed Forces should unionize

Post by Guest on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 10:05

yup as ive been saying for a long time one of the three things that need to be done soonest and the third in order .

would have been totally against this before 2006 but after that it has become an absolute MUST !!!!!

ya I get the Dutch thing but that's only some of the Dutch and because that would be situational . worked with them wasn't impressed but worked with the royal Dutch marines and It was like night and day . no long hair or beer drinking and very switched on . not positive but I think the long hair was allowed for non operational conscripts .

worked with the Germans witch are switched on and get this worked with their police and I'm telling you these guys are as well disciplined and well trained as a lot of countries militaries out there . its highly unlikely you will find a better militarily trained police force on the planet outside Israel .

but comparing different countries to Canada is like arguing tactics .

thing is a union for the most part would not change how the military operates as far as a soldiers perspective . really outside of a possible change in a soldiers grievance procedures it will effect nothing but having a say in pay and benefits . ya not a real union I guess but it would look very similar to what the RCMP has now .

don't forget the RCMP was able to thwart two pushes by the GOC to give them the NVC precisely because they have a union .

in the past we could trust politicians to take care of its vets . those days are long behind us and these frackers can no longer be trusted .

vets orgs yes the big one included have failed .

we have to take care of ourselves and each other now boys and this would be the best way .

it would have ensured that the NVC with the buyout would have NEVER happened .

my personal priorities ;

1. end the buyout .

2. fix the VRAB situation so that people can get the benefits they are entitled to .

3. start a union so that these benefits can NEVER be taken away again .

always question authority

propat




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Re: Old ways of trying to fix the military aren't working. The Canadian Armed Forces should unionize

Post by Bruce72 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 09:18

A union would destroy discipline and undermine the authority of anyone above the rank of Private (recruit).

Military personnel can be called upon to do certain things that make any other occupation, regardless of what it is, look like a day at the park. Soldiers, sailors and airforce personnel have the ultimate responsibility.

I used to remind other soldiers that our job was to kill people. You cannot unionize that mentality. As reprehensible as some people might find that notion, it is a reality. And more often than not it isn't open for debate.

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Re: Old ways of trying to fix the military aren't working. The Canadian Armed Forces should unionize

Post by johnny211 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 07:52

Interesting article. It's one that i think would work theses times. Back in the 80,s i don,t think it would have. I remember working with Dutch soldiers on exercises in Germany back in the 80,s. They have been unionized for years. Sitting in their radio veh,s with their long hair, while they smoked and drank a beer..lol. But with so much crap going on in the CF now, a union would take the higher up to task. VVV...
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Old ways of trying to fix the military aren't working. The Canadian Armed Forces should unionize

Post by Bruce72 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 07:04

It might seem like a radical idea, but much of Canada's security defence community is already unionized


Leadership at the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) has always insisted that the well-being of the rank and file is their primary concern.

But the seemingly endless number of cases and stories about delayed pensions, lack of mental health resources, systemic sexual harassmentor even tragic, fatal incidences suggest that generals are losing the battle. The piecemeal approach to fixing these issues isn't working. Here's something that might: unionizing the military.

It might seem like a radical idea, but the truth is that much of Canada's security defence community is already unionized, including the police and fire departments, EMS, as well as the uniformed and armed personnel at Canadian Border Service Agency and Canadian Coast Guard. So too is the Communication Security Establishment under the Department of National Defence, as well as certain elements of Canadian Security Intelligence Service. In 2015, the RCMP won the right to unionize, too.

Faster and better treatment

Unionization is about trust and empowerment. It means giving the military rank and file the right, as a group, to self-advocate and negotiate for improved salary, benefits and working conditions within government-approved parameters. It will also give individual members the means to more effectively air their grievances. Invariably, the result will be faster and better treatment when it comes to injuries and disabilities, and it will mean quicker and more efficient remedies when benefits are denied.

On paper, it's true that anyone in the military — from private to general — has the right to initiate a grievance, allegedly without fear of reprisal. In reality, it's not so straightforward. Consider how a 19-year-old female private might feel, for example, individually filing a formal complaint of workplace harassment compared to, say, a 50-year-old colonel grieving the terms of his employment. It is simply not enough to say that all military personnel has the right to make a complaint if there are no corresponding guarantees of equality in representation, immune to influence of the strict military hierarchy.


Now, before a dystopian mirage of slovenly soldiers refusing orders preempts this debate, it's important to outline what a unionized military does not mean: unionization does not mean challenging the operational commitments of the military, nor does it give service members the right to refuse a lawful order. It will not pacify our military, and the standard commands of "fall-in," "advance," "fire" and "halt" will not be subject to pre-approval by the union. Unionized militaries of NATO countries such as Germany, Norway and the Netherlands don't operate like that, and ours won't either.

Like its sister services in the defence security community, a unionized Canadian military — for obvious reasons — will not have the legal option to withdraw services and go on strike. Nor would it be locked out if contract negotiations reach an impasse. Instead, much like our police and fire services, it would have the options of mediation or binding arbitration to settle any contract disputes.

A more educated military

The incentive to unionize the military is particularly important given the prospect of looming personnel shortages, wherein Western militaries — including Canada's — will find it increasingly difficult to meet the growing demand for highly skilled and educated men and women to fill its ranks. The days when high school dropouts could easily find career options throughout the Forces have long since passed, meaning our ranks are now filled with increasingly high-skilled and educated men and women. Can we really continue to delude ourselves into thinking they are not capable or deserving of their own to organization to advocate for their workplace and careers?

The old ways of trying to fix the military aren't working. It's time to try something new. A unionized military will ultimately mean our Forces will be better supported, which — for the men and women who protect our rights and freedoms — is something that is long overdue.


http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/opinion/unionize-caf-1.3988971

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