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CIA Reassessment Review

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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by Newf on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 08:55

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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by Artie Simm on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 07:59

bog6 wrote:Well i just got my reply from Ombudsman office today on why I was granted EIA
what is EIA
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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by bigrex on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 16:39

It really is absolutely ridiculous that they never extended the CIAS to those getting EIA as well, since if the CIA was inadequate, it only makes sense that the program it replaced wouldn't be adequate either. I guess soon it won't make any difference, since they are eliminating the CIAS, creating a sweet spot for being declared DEC, between 2012, and 2019, where you get an additional benefit, that neither older Veterans, or younger veterans can ever qualify for.
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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by Bruce72 on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 13:38

bog6 wrote:Well i just got my reply from Ombudsman office today on why I was granted EIA instead of CIA...

CM sent in the form for me for both CIA and EIA, returned with EIA...issues got much worse and later determined to be DEC..and Rehab. Because i was not on rehab during the application for CIA or EIA i can only get EIA. And due to the way the reg's are written i can no longer get CIA..even though i have been DEC'd.

What about  those that get CIA while on rehab and then not DEC'd but the take the education and maybe find work..Do they keep the CIA and CIAS??

Talk about a screwy system.

hope they change this in the future.

Veteran-Centric cheers

CIA can be awarded during or after participation in a rehab program, if a veteran qualifies, and it is for life.

CIAS can only be awarded if a vet is deemed DEC.

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CIA CIAS

Post by bog6 on Thu 31 May 2018, 23:07

Well i just got my reply from Ombudsman office today on why I was granted EIA instead of CIA...

CM sent in the form for me for both CIA and EIA, returned with EIA...issues got much worse and later determined to be DEC..and Rehab. Because i was not on rehab during the application for CIA or EIA i can only get EIA. And due to the way the reg's are written i can no longer get CIA..even though i have been DEC'd.

What about those that get CIA while on rehab and then not DEC'd but the take the education and maybe find work..Do they keep the CIA and CIAS??

Talk about a screwy system.

hope they change this in the future.

Veteran-Centric cheers

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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by Artie Simm on Thu 31 May 2018, 16:51

Teager wrote:If your educated and healthy enough to work out the door you go regardless of how much you make.
wow, just wow, I can see me now checking bags at walmart
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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by Teager on Thu 31 May 2018, 09:14

If your educated and healthy enough to work out the door you go regardless of how much you make.

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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by Artie Simm on Thu 31 May 2018, 00:20

Taz wrote:I was on SISIP LTD for 5 years and ELB for 1.5 years without working. I finally got the nerve to give work a try in 2015 but was not earning anywhere close to my pre-release salary. I don't understand how VAC determines who get's an increase and who does not.
I thought you didn't have to take a job, if it wasn't going to pay you atleast 66% of your pre release salary?
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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by pinger on Fri 07 Jul 2017, 16:05

Interesting. The return of contributions you mention teen I got a long time ago. But very similar to a one time pay out i.e. lump sum. One is a P Award while the other is Tax land.

"The medically released veteran "invests" the money for the future." Somewhat similar to a 22 y/o young NVC vet getting say $100,000 and investing it?  Here hoping...

When I got my return of c, it was my lottery that kept me going and a roof over my head.
Probably similar somewhat to how a P/A leaves some folks these days.

I know Trooper....Rolling Eyes this is off the topic. But it's all good.
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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by Teentitan on Fri 07 Jul 2017, 15:28

Veteran one gets his return of pension contributions and their belief is like the lump sum payment under the NVC. The medically released veteran "invests" the money for the future.

That's how VAC thinks when the NVC was implemented....invest money to help in the future.

Vet #1 will not receive more then vet #2 after age 65 because vet#1's CPP payment will be significantly less, or most likely CPP bare minimum, compared to vet#2 CPP payment.

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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by bigrex on Fri 07 Jul 2017, 15:21

teen, explain how VAC uses a return of contribution at age 65? Since they are both on EELB, at age 65, when they start collecting the RISB, they are both going to receive 70% of their pre-65 benefits, reduced by anything they get from CPP, OAS and CF pension, just like it's deducted from EELB. So if Vet #1 receives more than vet #2 before age 65, he will receive more after age 65.
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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by Teentitan on Fri 07 Jul 2017, 15:01

OK as good as your points are you have to remember there is a "financial floor" that injured vets have to meet as determined by VAC.

This is where the CF pension's come into the VAC equation to achieve the "financial floor". In a perverse way of the math that VAC does they include the return of pension contribution for veteran #1, in your example. Only VAC uses the return of contribution when said veteran reaches age 65. The age where vet #2 pension continues with CPP whereas vet #1 is going to see a reduction at age 65 as he has no pension like vet #2.

We need to remember that VAC always does their calculations not in the now but in the future. Stupid? Absolutely. But it's a reality.

The only payment that VAC cannot consider in the math is a PA pension Pinger. If VAC was to include deducting a PA pension then another lawsuit would be launched, most likely by SISIP, as it has been legally labeled basically a "non existing payment".

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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by bigrex on Fri 07 Jul 2017, 14:58

Pinger, I understand wanting equity for everyone, but VAC does not want equity. They have set it up, so that people will all be treated differently, and most times their reasoning makes some sense, but not in this case. If they wanted to compensate veterans for specifically losing their military career, they should have come up with a separate benefit
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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by bigrex on Fri 07 Jul 2017, 14:41

teentitan wrote:Still don't get what you are trying to say Rex.  Both are making the same amount per month.

They do not get the same amount though. The first Vet would get an additional $600/mo, merely for the fact that he/she was released before getting the ten year mark. The current CIA rules make it so that regardless if whether or not you meet the disability criteria for CIA, all you need to do is prove DEC. So under 10 years served and DEC = Grade 1. 10-19 years = grade 2, and 20 years or more = grade 3. Plus the supplement. maybe the way it should be is, the grade is primarily based on the level of disability, then DEC would increase that by one grade. So if you would not otherwise qaulify for CIA, but are DEC, then you get grade three. If you already qualify for grade three, and are DEC, then you get bumped to grade two, Etc.
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Re: CIA Reassessment Review

Post by pinger on Fri 07 Jul 2017, 14:07

Hiya Rex,

Here's my simple layman's take on your example. Assuming they are both under the NVC because if one was NVC and the other Cpl was under the PA that would be a completely different scenario.

Right off the bat their monthly's are different amounts because of their different CIA grades being a 1 and 2 (Which is very wrong to me if they are identically severely disabled)

And obviously, one gets a one time return of contributions while the other one gets a monthly CF pension. That 10 year mark which is carved in granite.
Here's a real crazy thought... what if they consolidated (blended) the return of contributions with ANY amount of time served? Even playing field. No one is disadvantaged.
One year served = a $100/mos. CF pension / 20 years served =  a $2,000/mos. CF pension

On a side note, that monthly CF pension is a given for that one Cpl. In addition, for both Cpl's their ELB, CIA, and CIAS's are NOT necessarily a guarantee. Enter anyone else's scenario and esp. the finer details and things get hairy real quick...

But I understand your simple example Rex.

My 2 cents


Last edited by pinger on Fri 07 Jul 2017, 14:08; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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