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What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by Artie Simm on Sun 20 May 2018, 23:19

bigrex wrote:They do not deduct the disability pension from ELB any longer. So the worst case scenario when going on ELB would 47,326 (new minimum †ELB), including your CF pension. Then your PA pension would be on top of that, as well if you are approved for PIA.
I don't have all the #`s yet, but what if my current job paid $50000, ELB is canceled out then? I also found this online unless there has been yet another change?
"Effective October 1, 2012 disability pension benefits payable under the Pension Act are no longer deducted from EL and Canadian Forces Income Support benefits. This change is effective on a go forward basis only.
Disability pension benefits payable under the Pension Act may still be a deduction for calculations that predate October 1, 2012."
I was injured before 2012 so my disability pension would in fact be subtracted from ELB, as would my pension, If I outright quit my job so I can get better , I`ll never see such a job again, not now that I`m over 50 and mentally broken. I was unemployed 2 years before I landed it, I have since started a family over the years, I can`t get by on under $20000 a year
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by bigrex on Sun 20 May 2018, 10:07

They do not deduct the disability pension from ELB any longer. So the worst case scenario when going on ELB would 47,326 (new minimum ELB), including your CF pension. Then your PA pension would be on top of that, as well if you are approved for PIA.
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by Artie Simm on Sun 20 May 2018, 02:02

bigrex wrote:Artie, even if you go on rehab and get ELB, you are not required to quit your job. .So if you keep working, and earn $40000/yr, VAC will only deduct $20000 from your ELB benefit, as long as you are participating in the rehab program, which could be something as simply attending weekly appointments with a mental health professional.The $42000 was the minimum amount you can get under the ELB, before deductions. I think it is actually more now. but it's quite possible to receive much more dependant of your rank and when you released
I`m caught between a rock and a hard place, sorry I`m still confused about ELB. VAC is currently working on what my take home will be if anything, The problem is mostly my job as it requires 2 weeks notice for any "Dr. appointment" ( which in fact are psychologist sessions), and the time frame allowed to be away from work to attend is 3hours only. I guess I could get by one 1 session every 2 weeks if I jump through the proper hoops at work, but it`s daunting, plus even when I make a session, which could be any where from 9-5pm, after an hour of dredging up my past to a shrink, the last thing I want to do is return to work, I`m too emotionally drained afterward. To avoid all this any time my psychologist set me up with an appointment, I just called my work place and said that I was "sick" and wouldn`t be in for the whole day, but at 26 sessions a year, calling sick, my job has put me on attendance management which could end up getting me fired.
If fired or quit I could make tons of sessions, but from my understanding of ELB my previous military pension and current disability pension would be subtracted from I`m guessing $42000?, that wouldn't leave me with much
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by Artie Simm on Sun 20 May 2018, 01:52

Teager wrote:Artie Simm if I understand correctly you technically do not want to leave your job? You also want help with PTSD to better function in your job? †Now I'm guessing you have already had a claim for PTSD. If that's the case you can still get treatment while working IF that works for you. VAC will still cover the costs of any therapy you may need. There's also other avenues like a service dog I know the wait is long for one but maybe having one at work can help you.

There's a lot of different things out there as different things work for different people. You just need to find what works for you. If the rehab program is whats best apply see what's available. Just because you get accepted to rehab but let's say it's not working for you doesn't mean you need to do it. Applying and getting accepted for benefits does not mean you have to recieve them if it doesn't work for you.

There are many outside veteran run organizations that can help too. They have all kinds of programs available usually at no cost and also help with applying to VAC programs for what you need. Many here can probably direct you to one that's close to you. Take that first step and apply I know everyone has there horror stories with VAC but you won't get any help or even know what pertains to your individual situation if you don't apply.
You are correct, I do have PTSD and I don't want to leave my job, but my symptoms persist and are becoming noticeable to co-workers. I have tried attending treatment on my off days, sick days etc. but my Job makes that impossible to continue with any regularity or repercussions for needing so many "dr. appointments". I`ll bet there is something in the labour rules about harassing employees over being sick/going to appointments all the time, but I don't want to draw attention to myself, and be stigmatized at work. I just don't think I can get any benefit out of therapy unless I can make regular sessions not sporatic ones, but if my bosses ever found out the true nature of my appointments I would probably be let go. I am aware of the programs VAC offers as well as the vet groups but once again, I don't think they will work for me unless I can go all the time, which brings me back to square 1. If I quit my job to attend all these help sessions, I will not bring in enough money to support my family so what`s the point.
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by bigrex on Sat 19 May 2018, 16:47

Artie, even if you go on rehab and get ELB, you are not required to quit your job. .So if you keep working, and earn $40000/yr, VAC will only deduct $20000 from your ELB benefit, as long as you are participating in the rehab program, which could be something as simply attending weekly appointments with a mental health professional.The $42000 was the minimum amount you can get under the ELB, before deductions. I think it is actually more now. but it's quite possible to receive much more dependant of your rank and when you released
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by Teager on Sat 19 May 2018, 10:35

Artie Simm if I understand correctly you technically do not want to leave your job? You also want help with PTSD to better function in your job? Now I'm guessing you have already had a claim for PTSD. If that's the case you can still get treatment while working IF that works for you. VAC will still cover the costs of any therapy you may need. There's also other avenues like a service dog I know the wait is long for one but maybe having one at work can help you.

There's a lot of different things out there as different things work for different people. You just need to find what works for you. If the rehab program is whats best apply see what's available. Just because you get accepted to rehab but let's say it's not working for you doesn't mean you need to do it. Applying and getting accepted for benefits does not mean you have to recieve them if it doesn't work for you.

There are many outside veteran run organizations that can help too. They have all kinds of programs available usually at no cost and also help with applying to VAC programs for what you need. Many here can probably direct you to one that's close to you. Take that first step and apply I know everyone has there horror stories with VAC but you won't get any help or even know what pertains to your individual situation if you don't apply.

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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by Artie Simm on Sat 19 May 2018, 00:01

bigrex wrote:Artie simm, unfortunately there is no easy, cut and dry answer. Unless you are currently making more than $42000/yr, your income is not going to be reduced if you need to go off work while undergoing treatment. Or if you choose to keep working, while also taking part in the rehab program, ELB will only deduct 50% of your income, and as of next year, will allow the you to earn up to $20000, before any deductions occur.

We can't tell you what you should do. All we can do is inform you of your options. Is it a risk to leave your job to make yourself better? Could it all end badly? Yes, I'm not going to lie to you. But it could also all work out for the better. I was in a similar position once, I had my pensions, and employment, but when it got to the point that I could not physically work any longer, without causing me harm, I had to make a choice to seek help. For me it turned out to be the right one, because after I contacted VAC, I've since been approved for EELB, CIA, CIAS, Attendance Allowance, clothing allowance, and they put my wife through schooling for two years, allowing her to bring even more money into the home.
thx for the info.Where does the # $42000 figure into things? I wouldn`t be going "off" work, that gives the impression that I would have the option to return, if I left, that door would close. Forgive me if I get confused but you mentioned if I was taking part in REHAB, ELB will only deduct 50% of my income. Suppose I had a job that made $40000 a year, entered Rehab in the form of keeping my job, but at least attending psyche appointments, would that mean, I would still have my job of $40000 a year and ELB would pay me another $20000 a year as long I was in programing? I`m not sure I understand? I`m so worried about it all ending badly, yes it would be nice to get better, but what has one done if the gain the earth and lose their soul. If someone told me they could make me instantly better but I would lose all my finances, I guess I`d rather stay sick, if It was only me to worry about I wouldn't turn to VAC for anything, Id just ride off into the sunset , but I`ve got mouths to feed. If I quit
work, and did everything VAC asked but I couldn't provide for my family, Id be so ashamed I`d probably end it all.
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by BinRat on Fri 18 May 2018, 22:30

Bruce72 wrote:Can somebody explain in plain English what the different numbers mean in the Quality of Life Rating. I've never fully understood how that part works.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/after-injury/disability-benefits/benefits-determined/table-of-disabilities/ch-02-2006

Introduction

This chapter is used to assess the effects of an entitled condition on a Member/Veteran/Client's QOL. Activities of Independent Living, Recreational and Community Activities, and Personal Relationships are all components considered in a QOL rating. One QOL rating is arrived at for each entitled condition or bracketed entitled conditions. The term "bracketed conditions" is defined as entitled conditions which affect the same body areas or result in a similar loss of function and cannot be separated for medical assessment purposes, that are grouped or "bracketed" together to arrive at one Medical Impairment rating.

The effects of an entitled condition may limit or prevent the fulfilment of a role in the above-noted QOL components that would be normal for a Member/Veteran/Client of the same age without a disability.

It must be emphasized that, when and where possible, the usual or accustomed activities that the Member/Veteran/Client was engaged in prior to the disability or worsening of the disability should be the major consideration in determining the QOL effects from the entitled condition or the bracketed entitled conditions. In addition, the inability to perform or to modify usual QOL activities must be directly due to the entitled condition and not other variables or characteristics such as non-entitled condition(s), lack of skill, motivation, choice, availability or access to recreational activities, employment, etc. The appropriate QOL level will be determined based on the provided information. In the absence of the QOL information, a Member/Veteran/Client will be awarded the minimum QOL level 1 rating in relation to the Medical Impairment rating.

Judgement is to be used by the decision maker as to the extent that the entitled condition contributed to the QOL effects versus other factors such as non-entitled condition(s), etc. The Partially Contributing Table should not be applied to the QOL rating as that table is specific to the calculation of Medical Impairment ratings only.

Each time there is a new entitlement award or a review of an assessment, at either the departmental or VRAB level, a QOL rating for each entitled condition or bracketed entitled conditions is added to the Medical Impairment rating to arrive at the Disability Assessment. It is the final Disability Assessment which would be the subject of a review or appeal.

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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by bigrex on Fri 18 May 2018, 09:25

Artie simm, unfortunately there is no easy, cut and dry answer. Unless you are currently making more than $42000/yr, your income is not going to be reduced if you need to go off work while undergoing treatment. Or if you choose to keep working, while also taking part in the rehab program, ELB will only deduct 50% of your income, and as of next year, will allow the you to earn up to $20000, before any deductions occur.

We can't tell you what you should do. All we can do is inform you of your options. Is it a risk to leave your job to make yourself better? Could it all end badly? Yes, I'm not going to lie to you. But it could also all work out for the better. I was in a similar position once, I had my pensions, and employment, but when it got to the point that I could not physically work any longer, without causing me harm, I had to make a choice to seek help. For me it turned out to be the right one, because after I contacted VAC, I've since been approved for EELB, CIA, CIAS, Attendance Allowance, clothing allowance, and they put my wife through schooling for two years, allowing her to bring even more money into the home.
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by Teager on Fri 18 May 2018, 09:17

I think the hoops vary depending on the veterans situation. For me only had to get a doctor's report and verification from sisip that I was on LTD. As Johnny said your case manager sits down with some other medical people to determine DEC after all information is in.

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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by johnny211 on Fri 18 May 2018, 05:36

Hi ArtieSimm - Hi, itís a process that one has to be patient, as it may take awhile, New pscy assessment, and/or dr letter stateing reasons one canít work, sent them to CM, then she came out did her assessment. Thatís all sent in, and someone, or a gp at VAC determines if your DEC. Things may have changed now, that was 4 yrs ago. I hope it all works out for you. VVV
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by Artie Simm on Fri 18 May 2018, 00:47

johnny211 wrote:Well said as always Big Rex. Mine was about 21/2 yrs, did college, got a great job, lasted 5 mths before I feel down the rabbit hole again. I just couldnít concentrate and memory sucked. CM did more assessments, and in conjunction with psyc and dr, it was deemed I could no longer work, and got DEC. It sucks for us all to admit that.
But brothers and sisters you need to look after yourselves.
† But one has to follow all the VAC goals set out, pscy appts, school, etc. Miss a few of them and your out. And with that Johnnys off too THC land..lol. VVV
† Also as Bigrex said, you can do the pscy and Rehab part, and not do retraining.


So how big were the hoops you had to jump through to be declared DEC ?

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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by Artie Simm on Fri 18 May 2018, 00:44

bigrex wrote:There are a few different programs that you are likely thinking of. The rehab program, can basically be for life, on and off. it goes active when you need it. But you need the rehab program to get temporary ELB, which is intended to replace your income, while going to school, or partaking in short term treatment. So you should be able to take a 2 year hiatus from work, providing there is an approved treatment plan during those two years, and collect ELB. By the end of the two years, once the treatment is completed, they will decide whether or not you are capable of returning to work, or deem you DEC and place you on EELB. But if after the two years is over, and they decide that you can return to work, you can return to your old job, and ELB ceases. If that job is no longer available, or viable, you can go on CFIS (Canadian Forces Income Support), while searching for new employment. As far as CIAS and DEC is concerned, that is only applicable if you are unable to earn 66.6%, because of the limitations of your medical conditions, not because the job market is poor.

So the short of it is, No. You cannot remain on rehab program, getting additional benefits like ELB, and PIAS, indefinitely, unless you are deemed DEC.
Well then it`s a mixed bag, because I have been approved for REHAB, which means VAC is gathering sources of present income to determine if I qualify for ELB...however I was released with a pension part time served/medical release so that monthly income will be subtracted from whatever ELB I might be entitled to...as will my current monthly pay cheque , which will probably whittle the ELB payment down to something I can`t live on, unless I outright quit my job, as no job especially mine is going to grant any person a 2 year hiatus to get well - unless that`s some labour law I don`t know about? If I leave my place of work, they'll never take me back, my worry is as I said, quitting and then realizing that whatever VAC programs are in place result in 0 income. The 66.6% dollar question was not so much about a poor job market as it was about QOL, I mean I`m sure I could get a job holding open the door at Walmart, but if it`s minimum wage does VAC top me up so that I end up making 66 % of my previous release salary or just wash their hand sof me and say " there you have a job", no matter how low the pay.
I know people who read all this are probably thinking, "why don't you just ask your CM all this", but I`ve been posting my questions on the My vac account site, I can never get a strait answer
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by Artie Simm on Fri 18 May 2018, 00:33

"I just couldnít concentrate and memory sucked. CM did more assessments, and in conjunction with psyc and dr, it was deemed I could no longer work, and got DEC. It sucks for us all to admit that.
But brothers and sisters you need to look after yourselves.
† But one has to follow all the VAC goals set out, pscy appts, school, etc. Miss a few of them and your out. And with that Johnnys off too THC land..lol. VVV
† Also as Bigrex said, you can do the pscy and Rehab part, and not do retraining."
So how big were the hoops you had to jump through to be declared DEC ?
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Re: What is the longest time anyone here has been on the REHAB program?

Post by bigrex on Thu 17 May 2018, 23:52

Basically, it's how much the disability actually impacts your life, and the more severe the disability, the more potential impact it can have. For example, two veterans have lower back disabilities, and are both assessed at 15, purely on the fact that they have a similar reduced range of motion. Veteran #1 is able to carry on with a relatively normal life, only occasionally taking some extra strength Tylenol, to control pain. But veteran #2 is taking opioids on a daily basis, is unable to work, and may be forced to spend days in bed. Unfortunately, I cannot get into the VAC website right now, or I would post the chart ,that explains the different things that VAC uses to determine the QOL rating.
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