Application for PIA and PIA supplement

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Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by Ex Member on Thu 13 Sep 2012, 12:59

afternoon,

filled out the PIA form letter VAC608A and sent it in,

I havent worked since 2001,
released in 2004,
have a CF medical pension,
CPP(D), and
VAC at 92% (paid 90%, as they only pay in 3% increments), and
am still considered TPI thru SISIP and soon to be a reactivated/un-archived zero sum client (once the settlement is finished, 8 yrs and counting),
and do not recieve ELB (applied for and denied in 2006, because it included my VAC amount)

 My question is fm my discussion with my VAC rep on my current application for the PIA and PIA supplement,
I am an active re-hab client, but am not on their books as recieving SISIP (yet to be resolved).

VAC has never looked at (been informed enough) me or offered the PIA.

As a Pension Act recipient I am not at 98% or higher so i did not qualify for the EIA (as of yet) and did not draw their attention.

  A person is only allowed either the EIA or PIA but not both, I figured on waiting for the EIA (non taxable) but have decided with taking counsel from this site, that the PIA is more to my benefit.

 I have been told that i must be first deemed (after more than a decade of unemployment) to be VAC's version of TPI, under a document I cannot find online.

 This may be the first time that my VAC representatives has had to deal with such an application, but more information for myself would be beneficial.

Any advise, a timeline to expect it to take, or information would be helpful.

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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by BinRat on Thu 13 Sep 2012, 14:00

The Vac TPI form you may be looking for is this one VAC 671E1 (Medical Questionnaire: Determining Total and Permanent Incapacity)
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/forms/document/318



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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by Teentitan on Thu 13 Sep 2012, 15:16

Your CM should have the TPI form to send to you to fill out. I am currently applying for TPI as well and I'm going on 4/5 months now. But I have a medical assessment holding up my application.

I have been told the application for TPI should take no longer then 16 weeks.

So like every other application with VAC you roll the dice on a time line for your application.

So call your CM back and get that person involved with your application. They are trained and if they have a problem there is a "help network" CM's have created to help each other.

I'm not trying to discourage people from doing the paperwork themselves but everything eventually ends up on your CM's desk. So include them so they are familiar with your case and most importantly YOU.

Hope this helps Puddle's
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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by Guest on Thu 13 Sep 2012, 18:28

thank you for the added info and help teentitan and binrat,

my brother has printed one out to go over with me later.

the original application form I filled out for the PIA and PIA supplement was a VAC608E.

On the VAC608E form it stipulates that to get the PIA supplement you must be TPI to VAC standards, which is not that much different from any of the rest, just another hoop, not an obstacle.

It doesnt state that you must be TPI to get the PIA in the first place, just the Supplement, but instead of creating two forms (one for PIA and one for PIA supplement) they amagamated them into one.

This creates the need for having to be confirmed for both at the same time, or get neither (cm's wording)

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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by Guest on Thu 13 Sep 2012, 22:48

Looked over the form VAC671E, looks like there might be a hoop i cannot jump through, moved back here to Ontario last year.

I have no current medical doctor, probably won't for two or three years, with hope I will be dead before they can get to me, as the cure in most cases is worse than the problem.

My new counsellor (psychologist) doesnt see me til next month, and it would be at least 6-12 months for them to know me well enough to fill in the form.

All the information required is already available to VAC in the files they hold, over a decade of compiling documentation in regards to my medical status/condition, problems, issues and concerns.

At this point i do not know what next.

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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by Guest on Sat 15 Sep 2012, 00:21

talked with my Case Manager today, they said they would toss out the application, as I had not been previously approved as TPI by VAC,

I asked why, they told me they had never seen an application by a PA recipient, therefore why did I apply,

I was told to reapply when I had all the approvals in place, confusing, as this is what i thought the application process was for, and to be back dated to the application date as per the NVC.

Basically I am to do their job, then it shouldnt be a problem for them to hand over to the next person for processing for them.

Still confused, having to educate the ones that should be have the knowledge to hold the position they have in the first place, is frustrating.

Probably why i was overlooked in 2006 when they handed me the ELB paperwork, and once denied, they did not follow up with offering the PIA despite knowing (or not knowing better).

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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by bigrex on Mon 17 Sep 2012, 16:23

it really depends on your CM. I first met mine 5 months ago after realizing that would not be able continue working. Since meeting her, she has approved me for the second highest attendance allowance, approved for the rehab program and ELB, (even though I'm zeroed out), declared TPI, and approved for the PIA and supplement. And that was before having to have emergency back surgery on Saturday, having two vertebrae fused together and a section of another one removed altogether.
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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by oiler on Mon 25 Feb 2013, 20:45

Bigrex did you get your PIa due to back injury.? If you don't mind saying .. I am TPI and going to fill out the paper work for PIA but looking at the conditions it seems impossible for back injury unless paralyzed or similar .... That's the way my CM read to me anyways... I did not have surgery yet since there is too much To do and at my age 36 they don't want to do anything just suck it up.. They would need to fuse 6.plus or minus discs ... And multiple herniations .. Etc. just a quick synopsis Thanks for any info

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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by Guest on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 10:31

Oiler, this is what I found on Gov site: Hope it helps clarify for you Oiler. Let me know if you need any further. Take care, Sparrow

4.5.2 The Exceptional Incapacity Allowance and the Permanent Incapacity Allowance
Introduced into the Pension Act in 1971, Exceptional Incapacity Allowance (EIA) was intended to recognize and compensate for the broad range of non-economic impacts from a client’s disability related condition(s) by providing monthly compensation to pensioners who suffer extraordinary physical, social and psychological impairments and who, because of the nature of their disabilities are exceptionally incapacitated.

Although the NVC carried over some pension program allowances such as the clothing allowance, the EIA was not carried over. Instead, the NVC introduced the Permanent Incapacity Allowance (PIA) whose purpose is to recognize and compensate for the lost opportunity or economic disadvantage that permanent severe impairment resulting from service can cause.

The PIA is delivered under the Financial Benefits Program and is available to clients who are participating in the Rehabilitation Program for reasons related to a condition for which they have received a disability award. The two programs differ in their intent; while the EIA is a non-economic benefit, the PIA is an economic benefit. However, the eligibility requirements of the two benefits are very similar. EIA applicants must have pension assessments totaling 98%. The pensioner must also have an exceptional incapacity resulting from that disability. Exceptional incapacity is indicated by helplessness, continuing pain and discomfort, loss of enjoyment of life, and shortening of life span. Similarly, PIA applicants must have a permanent and severe impairment. They must also have been accepted into the Rehabilitation Program as well as received an award under the disability award program. Conditions that are considered to be a permanent severe impairment that impacts on employability and career progression include a permanent requirement for assistance and/or supervision, certain amputations, total loss of vision, hearing and/or speech, and severe and permanent psychiatric conditions.

Approximately 11% (6,747) of disability benefit recipients since 2006 are in receipt of both disability awards and disability pensions. Though they may have an exceptional incapacity as defined by the EIA or a permanent and severe impairment under the PIA, such dual clients are unlikely to ever qualify for either benefit. The EIA requires pension assessments to total at least 98% and does not take into account assessed disabilities under the disability award. The PIA requires the applicant to have a rehabilitation need related to his or her awarded condition; if the rehabilitation need is instead related to the pensioned condition, then the client is not eligible for the PIA.

From April 1, 2006 to December 31, 2009, 203 dual clients had a combined disability assessment of 98% or above. None were in receipt of EIA or PIA benefits. These severely disabled clients may be excluded from the PIA and EIA because the requirements of each program do not take into account the existence of the other program. Clients must be released from the military in order to qualify for PIA. However, only three clients are were assessed at the 100% class and are still serving. In addition to the potential gap for severely disabled dual clients, it appears that the PIA is not as easily accessed by severely disabled Veterans whose disabilities fall entirely under the NVC, compared to the accessibility of the EIA for pensioners. In January 2009, the Special Needs Advisory Group (SNAG) reported that the stringent PIA eligibility criterion was preventing PIA from being awarded to severely disabled Veterans.

There is evidence to support this contention. Under the Rehabilitation Program, VAC has created the category Totally and Permanently Incapacitated (TPI) clients, defined as Veterans “incapacitated by a permanent physical and/or mental health problem that prevents them from performing any occupation that would be considered suitable gainful employment.” From April 2006 to October 2009, 269 clients had been deemed to be TPI, but only three clients (0.02% of disability award recipients) had been awarded the PIA as of March 2009. In comparison, between April 2006 and March 2009, 3,779 pensioners (1.2% of disability pension recipients) were awarded the EIA. Statistics as of February 2010 show that only 15 eligible CF clients have applied for PIA. Of these cases, nine have had favourable decisions (60%). On the other hand, 43 CF client applications have been received for EIA and 39 or 90% of these have been favourable.

Conclusion

Both the disability pensions and the NVC have programs and benefits designed for severely disabled clients. Under the Pension Act, pre-NVC, clients may be eligible for attendance allowance and additional disability pension for the Veteran’s spouse and dependent children. Except for cases of service-related death, the allowance and additional pensions amount to significantly more financial benefits being paid to average pensioners than to NVC clients. Furthermore, differing intents and implementation of the EIA (pre-NVC) and the PIA (NVC) appear to further this imbalance. The eligibility requirements for EIA and PIA are both based on the client’s disabilities being entirely assessed under either the Pension Act or the NVC. It can be concluded that severely disabled dual clients do not receive the same compensation and benefits as severely disabled clients who are covered entirely under the Pension Act or NVC. Moreover, due to different eligibility criteria, it appears as though severely disabled NVC clients cannot always access PIA benefits even if they are deemed “totally and permanently incapacitated”.

R3 It is recommended that the Director General, Policy and Research Division and Director General, Program Management Division review the benefits and/or allowances available to severely disabled clients under the New Veterans Charter, and where necessary, seek authority to ensure the needs of these clients are adequately met. (Critical)


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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by 6608 on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:02

Oiler.........you are correct it is much easier to meet Vac's TPI requirements than the PIA requirements.............especially if you have all your limbs and are living alone.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/department/policy/document/1092

As per section 40 of the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Regulations, a permanent and severe impairment is:

(a) an amputation at or above the elbow or the knee;
(b) the amputation of more than one upper or lower limb at any level;
(c) a total and permanent loss of the use of a limb;
(d) a total and permanent loss of vision, hearing or speech;
(e) a permanent and severe psychiatric condition;
(f) a permanent requirement for physical assistance of another person for most activities of daily living; or
(g) a permanent requirement for supervision.

cheers



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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by oiler on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:18

Thanks again sparrow ,, I have not seen that info till now so thanks.... You rock...and 6608 of thank you for your help all info is good info.... Every bit helps and this is why I like this site people care.........thanks

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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by bigrex on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 12:38

Oiler, I was given the PIA because of the cumulative effects of the numerous conditions, pensioned and non pensioned, that require my wife to assist in dressing and bathing, and then special devices for walking and transferring. So if you require assistance for the ADL's, you may be approved.

I was in the similar situation as you, with my back, as they were basically saying to take the pain pills and to endure it. It was only after the herniation at L4-L5 got to the point that it was preventing me from using the washroom, that they were forced to do the emergency surgery to remove the disc back in the Fall. Unfortunately they didn't fuse the spine, or repair the problems at L5-S1, so now, I have what is classified as "failed back syndrome".

My laundry list.

-bilateral grade 4 knee OA (operated), but both require replacement but have to wait another 14 years.
-Failed back syndrome
-spinal stenosis
-cervical myofacial pain syndrome
-peripheral neuropathy
-bilateral lymphodema
-major depressive disorder
I forgot hearing loss and tinnitus.
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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by oiler on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 15:20

Thanks for your response big Rex .. I just got off the phone with the. Ortophidic surgeon I have to see him next week... Thanks again .

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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by bigrex on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 15:45

Good luck Oiler. I've never believed in the practice of waiting until we are older to do life changing surgery. I would rather have 10-15 years of pain free living now, while I'm relatively young, then when I'm older and have less reason to be physically active. I would love to be able to coach and show my son how to play basketball instead of just telling him how to play the game.
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Re: Application for PIA and PIA supplement

Post by oiler on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 18:33

Thanks man we will see if anything will go on. Cheers

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